CHINESE first non-Natives in America

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CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Cotton Over Steel » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:03 am

"Gavin Menzies, whose book 1421: the Year China Discovered the World was just released, has spent several years investigating the credibility of the claims about Zheng He, a Muslim eunuch employed by successive Ming emperors. Menzies, a retired British submarine commander, says many acedemics not just in China but also in the US beleive Zheng found North America and Australia during a two year odysessy which began in 1421.

In 1421 Zheng He's fleet of four mighty junks, set sail from Nanjing, the then capital of the Chinese Empire. Each ship was three times the size of Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar, and their triple hulls were more advanced than many 19th century warships. Mr. Menzies said so much teak was needed for their construction that the forests of Vietnam had to be raided, leading to a war with the ancient kingdom of Annam.

Mr. Menzies said that although Zheng himself turned back when they got to Sumatra, ho could still lay credit to the exploits of his admirals who he had trained and whose ships he had designed. Zheng He's fleet gradually split up but Mr. Menzies said there was incontrovertible evidence that three of the four ships went ot Arabia, the Cape of Good Hope, the Caribbean, South America the South Pacific, Australia and then the west coast of North America.

He said :'The Chinese set up settlements all along the west coast of North America, form Vancouver Island to New Mexico and inter-married happily with the local Indians. When the first Spanish colonialists arrived in the 16th century they found many Chinese, as well as wrecked junks. But the diseases the European colonialists brought with them wiped out 90% of the Indians, and destroyed the Chinese influence.'

Ironically,after the admirals of Zheng He's fleet returned from their global travels they were not lauded but castigated. The Ming dynasty, beset with keeping at bay the Mongol hordes, began a policy of isolationism which lasted 600 years. The great ships were mothballed, the admirals were pensioned off, the records wre burned and the blueprints for the might ships were destroyed. Now, the interest in the great expedition has been rekindled, and fundraising to recreate the ships and voyages has begun. (BBC, 22 Oct 02)"

From The World Explorer, Vol. 3 No.3, pages 8-9.
Many theories citing the Land Bridge as the only path of humans into the Americas cite the similiar features of American Natives and Asain. While this could explain the similiarities of North Alaskan Natives such as the Inupuik, and the Aleut, it does not explain other similarities found in the American Native population as a whole.

When the Spanish came, they raped, looted, and enslaved. When the English came, they stole the land and kept to themselves. Since the Chinese mixed and interbred with the indigenous people, there was more of a sharing of culture.



From: http://www.geocities.ws/jadedragonalask ... nding.html
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Re: CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Josh Young » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:16 pm

it would be nice to hear of a genetics study looking for Chinese mitochondrial markers in Native American coastal populations like in Peru.

A lot of work on Native genetics has been done, it is an interesting subject. Not that Chinese (Han) DNA has been found in Natives yet, but maybe it will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_hi ... e_Americas
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Re: CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Dvivid » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:25 am

Fascinating.

If you go to the Pacific Northwest section of the Native American exhibit at the Museum of Natural History in NYC, you'll have no doubt that the Chinese and Native American culture intermingled.

Their clothing, weapons, and artwork is heavily influenced by Chinese culture, including forearm crossbows, rice paddy hats, etc.
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Re: CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Josh Young » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:31 am

There is evidence of Korea and Japan influencing native culture as well. India seems to as well. China and all of these other nations were well known for sea faring expeditions.
More than that, the polynesian islands have a mix of genes that is very interesting. It supports the idea that asian peoples went to South America and possibly australia.

Feathered serpent may represent Korean or Chinese armor.

There is no doubt that mongolian/siberian DNA shows up in the natives of the USA.
That is interesting when you consider the natives of Japan, they are siberian, white too. They are called the Ainu, but their culture was heavily influenced by others by them, including China, and thus the Japanese people as we know them come to be.
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Re: CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Cotton Over Steel » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:37 pm

I tend to favor the theory that Chinese DNA traveled through the South Pacific from Australia, Polynesia and South America northward to North America, and genetic mixes with the thirteenth century Chinese arriving in large boats.

Haplogroup O
Haplogroup O is found frequently in East Asia and is the most frequent haplogroup among the Han Chinese. The O1 haplogroup is found at very high frequencies in the aboriginal Taiwanese. The O2 haplogroup has two primary lines, Os1 and Os2. The O2a line is found in the Southeast Asian populations of Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Southern China.

The O2b haplogroup occurs at high frequency in Japanese and Korean populations and at low frequency in East Asian populations.

====
'Haplogroup CF (P143) Found outside of Africa, throughout Eurasia, Oceania, and the Americas
...
Haplogroup C3 (M217, P44) Found throughout Eurasia and North America, but especially among Mongols, Kazakhs, Tungusic peoples, Paleosiberians, and Na-Dené-speaking peoples
...
Groups descended from Haplogroup K (M9)Haplogroup L is mainly found in South Asia. Haplogroup M is most prevalent in Melanesia. The NO haplogroup appeared ca. 35-40 ka in Asia. Haplogroup N probably originated in Mongolia and spread both east into Siberia and west, being the most common group found in Uralic peoples. Haplogroup O is found at its highest frequency in East Asia and Southeast Asia, with lower frequencies in the South Pacific, Central Asia, and South Asia. Haplogroup P gave rise to groups Q and R, and is rarely found in its undifferentiated stage. It probably originated in Central Asia or the Altai region. Haplogroup Q also originated in Central Asia, migrating east to North America.
...
Haplogroup Q (MEH2, M242, P36) Found in Siberia and the Americas...
Q1a3a1 (M19) Found among some indigenous peoples of South America, such as the Ticuna and the Wayuu'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-ch ... haplogroup
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Re: CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Josh Young » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:26 pm

Cotton Over Steel wrote:I tend to favor the theory that Chinese DNA traveled through the South Pacific from Australia, Polynesia and South America northward to North America, and genetic mixes with the thirteenth century Chinese arriving in large boats.


There is a lot that i have read that suggests that.
The crops and genetics of the polynesian islands suggest as much.
So do their dances and their mythology relating to them.
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Re: CHINESE first non-Natives in America

Postby Cotton Over Steel » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:15 pm

To help paint a picture of past connections between cultures, genetics is one of our better tools. This is what the DNA tells us;

Katsushi Tokunaga and colleagues. ‘Genetic link between Asians and Native Americans: A 24-CW8-B4B was commonly observed in Taiwan indigenous populations, Maori in New Zealand, Orochon in North East China, Inuit and Tlingit. Taiwanese and Maoris common haplotype. DB1* 0802 very common Allele in Native Americans and in Japanese (Ainu Ryuku and North East Asia).Haplotype A31-B51 commonly observed in both Native Americans (native Brazilian and N American Indians) and East Asians.

Shinji Harihara and colleagues: ‘Frequency of a 9bp deletion in the mitochrondrial DNA among Asian populations' Figure 2 has startling pie charts. It appears that Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Nieu, the Cook Islanders and the Maori had ancestors from the Shizuoka prefecture of Japan!

Antonio Torroni and colleagues : “The presence of Group B deletion haplotypes in East Asian and Native American populations but their absence in Siberians raises the possibility that haplogroup B could represent a migratory event distinct from the one(s) which brought group A, C and D mtDNA''s to the Americas”.

Fidias E, Leon S; 'Peopling the Americas' "People with the so-called ‘new' Allele . . . such as the Cayapa or Chachi from Ecuador also display an aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency that is molecularly similar to that found in Southeast Asia and Japanese people but absent in Northeast Asians. These similarities add strength to the proposal that ancient voyages could follow the Pacific sea currents that join Japan to South America as well as other routes.”

From : http://users.on.net/~mkfenn/page8.htm
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