Making Gongfu a Career

Discuss shaolin longfist, white crane or other styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: nyang, Dvivid, Inga

Making Gongfu a Career

Postby Urgeist » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:24 pm

Anyone done this? Any Sifus on this forum? What were your experiences? Advice? Setbacks? Please share. Perhaps career is the wrong word since it sounds as though your in the game for lots of money and a tid bit of ego. I'm trying to start a thread though on how people went about making as much time for their gongfu as possible. There are so many things in this world and so little time. We really only have the chance to truly master
Urgeist
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:03 pm

Postby yeniseri » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:14 am

If you are using the Western definition /paradigm of career as a reference, then gongfu will fail miserably. If gongfu is treated as a commodity, where the highest bidder is a 'winner', then you MAY have a good chance of some success while poisoning the pool with unethical practices that drive true seekers away while attracting the "spiritual materialists" (per Chogyam Trungpa) who are want to bask!

If you are using gongfu as a objective and personal journey within trnascendance and enlightenment then you are on your way but you will have to find a another 'career' that pays the rent, takes cares of family and the like.
There is nothing wrong with the concept of gongfu as a career but one's choices will determine where one ends up and on which side!

I am sorry if I did not put forth what you may have wanted to see but I hope you understand what I attempted to say.
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA

Postby Urgeist » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:52 pm

I understand your sentiment. However, Dr. Yang seems to have done pretty well making a career out of Gongfu. I'm not talking about using the art to become rich and famous and all that nonsense, but I would like to hear from forum members who've perhaps opened their own school.

Also, heres a book:

http://www.amazon.ca/Starting-Running-Y ... 0804834288
Urgeist
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:03 pm

Re: Making Gongfu a Career

Postby tomhao » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:34 pm

I would like to - not for money - unless to help someone less fortunate- I only want the gongfu-
the only thing I require is ramen noodles
Last edited by tomhao on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tomhao
Forum Newbie
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:07 pm
Location: 俄克拉何馬 Měiguó

Re: Making Gongfu a Career

Postby Josh Young » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:31 pm

I would not say that Dr. Yang has made a career of Gong-fu.

I am defining Gong-Fu as skill gained over time, and the Gongfu of Dr. Yang and his students does impress me or I would not be here.

In terms of a career, being an author and a maker of DVDs has allowed Dr. Yang to earn a living. His Gongfu plays a huge role in this, however he is incredibly scholarly and productive and many people with excellent Gongfu skills are not so scholarly or productive.

There are 3 main people making decent money in the instruction of this material that I know of. One is Master Wong, One is the now deceased Erle Montaigue (whose WTBA is doing well under the care of Eli Montaigue) and one is Dr. Yang. Every one of these people is productive and produces an information product that has tie in sales relating to continued instruction and further information.

However I would like to point out that the Chens of Chen village were tremendously skilled martial artists and their progeny still are. But if you examine the historical record the Chens were not career martial artists, they were landlords, pharmacists and farmers. Often some of the most skilled martial artists do not pursue martial arts as a career or even as a hobby in the usual sense.

For a time in China martial arts were essentially banned, sometimes under penalty of death with the noteworthy exception of farmers who used the martial arts to keep fit in times when the crops did not require work. I point this out because many masters pursue other lifestyles and careers than martial arts, an example is that Shaolin and Daoist martial artists historically were monk/priest like first and martial artists second. In those cases the martial arts related to their traditions, but the traditions came first, Shaolin is not a martial arts temple, it is a Buddhist temple.

Now as to making gong-fu a career, this is possible in terms of selling information products with a unique angle or view. It has a lot to do with promoting the material and reaching the target audience.

Not one of my favorite martial arts teachers is a career martial artist. My teacher is a chiropractor, Scott Rodell runs a trading company and is a seller of swords. For much of his life Erle Montaigue was a career musician. Marco Greis is a photographer... etc

One of the most skilled martial artists I ever met was taught by the Chens in Bejing, he was a policeman in China and when I met him in the States he was getting a law degree.

I have seen extremely skilled teachers not be able to make a living doing martial arts instruction in a school or dojo. I would suggest working on books and DVDs from an original angle or perspective to anyone who wants to make a living in relation to gongfu.

There is one other group of people who has done well classically, these are private instructors retained by wealthy families or organizations, however they do not have open schools and do not accept students outside their organization or family whom they serve.

Even Musashi had to resort to painting and carpentry type work to sustain himself at times. What I mean to relate is that sometimes people who have mastered their arts are not able to sustain themselves from the art alone.

Today we have the internet, the world is different because of this. Taking advantage of such differences vastly increases your chance of success in this field. Dr. Yang is a good example, but his work is exceptional, likely due to his education. He has also worked very hard and for many years, he is inspiring.
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Making Gongfu a Career

Postby John the Monkey mind » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:08 am

I point this out because many masters pursue other lifestyles and careers than martial arts, an example is that Shaolin and Daoist martial artists historically were monk/priest like first and martial artists second. In those cases the martial arts related to their traditions, but the traditions came first, Shaolin is not a martial arts temple, it is a Buddhist temple.


I think you forgot one major category that still supports a lot of very good martial artists today. The "escort" services of China provided security for goods and people were often also employed as bodyguards for the rich.

Modern security groups and bodyguard agencies do the same. Some martial artists also find work in the Police and some even as instructors.

Gary Lam is a top Wing Chun exponent who I was told worked with guarding payrolls and shop takings. I have also come across people who have worked in personal security who are skilled in traditional martial arts and have heard by word of mouth about a lot more.

At a much lower level you have martial artists who work as door men. I would guess that the more exceptional martial artists tend to end up doing more exceptional things in security.

I do know one private Xing Yi instructor who seems to do well teaching privately by using his own premises (garage) but he also is involved with treating back pain with methods adapted from internal martial arts training.

I also I think the YMAA Warsaw Taiji instructor Marius Sroczynski is a full time instructor (as far as I can tell) and I can say from first hand experience his classes are first rate and he has not sacrificed the art for commercial interests. He offers lessons 5 days a week and I estimate he has over 100 students.
http://ymaa.com/training/schools/ymaa-warszawa
John the Monkey mind
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:15 am

Re: Making Gongfu a Career

Postby Josh Young » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:08 pm

You have a great point.

I know classically these type of people did well as private security, but having friends in private and clandestine security who are not martial artists but tend to have military training I feel like martial artists may not be the best people to employ for this in these times.

I know several men who are doormen/bouncers but are not martial artists, many of them do have a lot of fighting experience.

I know a few mercenaries... blackwater/Xe types, in the old days the positions they hold would have been held by martial artists.

As for clandestine work, hitmen/hired killers also used to be martial artists and in the prison system this is quite common still.

It reminds me that some friends of mine who did "private security work" (beat/kill/intimidate) for a gang in Los Vegas knew a man who they said was extremely skilled as a martial artist and they say that he never lost a fight and did beat and kill several people before he was shot to death.
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Making Gongfu a Career

Postby John the Monkey mind » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:24 am

I guess its a bit different in the UK as guns are less common. Ex-special forces are also more controled in who they work for. Government sanctioned mercenary is more the order of the day or bodyguard for favoured people I think. Still I could be wrong as I don't know any ex-SAS.
John the Monkey mind
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:15 am

Re: Making Gongfu a Career

Postby yeniseri » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:08 pm

Josh Young wrote:I know several men who are doormen/bouncers but are not martial artists, many of them do have a lot of fighting experience.
I know a few mercenaries... blackwater/Xe types, in the old days the positions they hold would have been held by martial artists.
As for clandestine work, hitmen/hired killers also used to be martial artists and in the prison system this is quite common still.
It reminds me that some friends of mine who did "private security work" (beat/kill/intimidate) for a gang in Los Vegas knew a man who they said was extremely skilled as a martial artist and they say that he never lost a fight...


Probably the distinction as above, has ethical, honourable and moreal implications.
Private security work, per my experience is usually ethical, where an individual does the opposite (per above) to protect life and the public. Clandestine work, per government organization has many layers of skills and martial arts is not one of them. Individuals may have a hobby but it is not the sole criteria of employment.

In reality, martial arts types tend to have an inflated view of themselves and rarely fit the blackwater/Academi types because everyone in the latter use weapons as tools as opposed to H2H, thought it is always an excellent complimet in acquisition of a weapon when primary is lost.
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA


Return to Shaolin Gong Fu / Kung Fu

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

cron