Flexible Sword Tip ?

[NC Tai Chi]

Hello all,

Can you help me out?

Since it is recommended that when we practice Tai Chi Jian we should choose a spring steel blade that has a flexible tip - explain why there are many times when we thrust with the jian, ie. Spirit cat Catches the Mouse, Waiting for the Fish, Hold the Moon Against the Chest , etc...when it appears the tip would NOT penetrate since it is flexible?

It seams to me that the blade should be firm and not bend 45-90 degrees.


I was just wondering, why would Master Yang, along with many others, recommend looking for a Tai Chi jian that is spring steel that the top third should bend upto 90 degrees ???

Divivid ??? Anyone else? Perhaps I am missing something. I understand that Tai Chi practicioners should have a supple spine and waist when moving and generating energy - but why practice the sword form that has no practical applications?

In Dr. Yang's book and DVD, Taiji Sword, chapter 2 reviews the fundamental training such as Stab, File, Bore, and Clip. They all appear to need a firm top third to do the job that is needed.

Again, I must be missing something, anyone have a good expalnation as to why many teachers want a floppy top third of the jian ?

~Peace

[Josh Young]

When was the last time someone teaching taiji sword actually thrust or cut with it?

I mean, did anyone who ever recommended a flexible sword intend to use it or to have others use it, to cut and penetrate targets of some sort?

Does anyone at YMAA do test cutting with real swords on targets like green bamboo, using authentic techniques? It is a very good way to see if you are doing the moves properly, simply use them to cut, thrust etc.

Simply knowing the technique is not good enough, just like with push hands and other forms of practice one must train at employing the technique properly, thus sword forms without test cutting is the same as training a form without any push hands or applications.

[yat_chum]

I have been told by an instructor that in China they use springy steel swords but when you look at the martial applications it just does not make sense. I'm sure that if the sword was used practically as Josh has suggested for target practice the blade would soon fatigue and break at the union of the two different types of steel. Flexible swords would be useful if you trained like western fencers do but I have never seen this done in the Chinese arts.

[Josh Young]

My taiji sword modeled after authentic Chinese swords does have a some flexibility, it isn't super rigid, but it will not bend under it's own weight.

there are some moves, slapping moves, that might be useful with a flexible sword and with half twist might turn into cuts with very high torque.

In China due to social change they do use flimsy swords for wushu tournaments and in modern kung-fu. But Chinese troops never carried flimsy swords and many thousands of specimens of ancient jian still exist that demonstrate what a historically authentic and accurate chinese sword looks, handles and weighs.

[yeniseri]

Hello all,

Can you help me out?

Since it is recommended that when we practice Tai Chi Jian we should choose a spring steel blade that has a flexible tip - explain why there are many times when we thrust with the jian, ie. Spirit cat Catches the Mouse, Waiting for the Fish, Hold the Moon Against the Chest , etc...when it appears the tip would NOT penetrate since it is flexible?

It seams to me that the blade should be firm and not bend 45-90 degrees.

I was just wondering, why would Master Yang, along with many others, recommend looking for a Tai Chi jian that is spring steel that the top third should bend upto 90 degrees ???

Divivid ??? Anyone else? Perhaps I am missing something. I understand that Tai Chi practicioners should have a supple spine and waist when moving and generating energy - but why practice the sword form that has no practical applications?

In Dr. Yang's book and DVD, Taiji Sword, chapter 2 reviews the fundamental training such as Stab, File, Bore, and Clip. They all appear to need a firm top third to do the job that is needed.

Again, I must be missing something, anyone have a good expalnation as to why many teachers want a floppy top third of the jian ?

~Peace

This is usually for modern tournaments and wushu performance events and does not reflect the actual usage/utility of the dao (usually).

The flexibility is something that should come out of the movements/postures in execution as opposed to mechanistically putting it into said movements and not being aware of usage.