Carl Rutherford wrote:Hi Everyone,
Erle learnt the origional Dim Mak from Chang Yiu Chun who was a real person
Mr. Rutherford,
Did you ever meet Chang Yiu Chun?
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Carl Rutherford wrote:Hi Everyone,
Erle learnt the origional Dim Mak from Chang Yiu Chun who was a real person
John the Monkey mind wrote:Josh Young wrote:wpgtaiji wrote: If one examines the forms coming from his teachings previous to this creation the content is very similar with key distinctions, for example there are jumping kicks and some very fast motions in the original style that are missing from the public version. Also one can examine the styles coming from his son Ban-hou (wu-tunan) and note that the content is very similar to the public form but with some key distinctions that are remarkably like the Wu material.
Have you come across any videos that you can share that illustrate this type of content? I would be interested to see what you are talking about. I know there is a hop in the Sabre form.
wpgtaiji wrote:There is a picture of Chang! He's in the pic with all the Yang family masters!
Josh Young wrote:If you recall the article that he has on his site where it is said he is self taught in a taiji based art that is more effective and easier to learn than what he was taught by Mr. Chu.
Erle was self taught, drawing on all those he met and especially Chang.
I believe there is a possibility that he amalgamated his art and then employed a test based upon effectiveness conveying truthfulness, despite that apparent flaw in that type of reasoning. I do feel his system is largely effective, but that effectiveness has never been the mark of historical accuracy and truth.
He definatly amalgamated his art from everyone he was influenced by. All Old & new masters do it. He wrote about it to share with people and put wack the "killing part" of Taiji as an effective street art.
This is a man who was incredibly productive in his lifetime in music, writing, making videos and other activities. His work indicates a very high level of intelligence and his demeanor indicated a thoughtful and insightful person.
I agree.
Imagine that having learned some taiji for a few years from a famous instructor you lose miserably in a fight and feel like the martial art you have been taught is a fraud, imagine that the instructors are teaching no hit knockouts and chi manipulations that are psychosomatic tricks.
Anyone can loose in a fight, no matter who you trained with, no one is invincible and Erle definatly new this. Tricks will always be tricks.
Imagine that you read about the old masters and compare what you have been taught, this fraud, and you look to the classics as well. You then start to experiment, looking at meridian lines and points, postures and motions, you come up with basic exercises and teach them to friends so you can practice against eachother.
Imagine finding yourself on a path , a martial arts path that opens for you. First you find one master , then another, then this internal path leads you to another who debunks what you just been learning. You come unstuck as you "cross hands" and learn some old forms about the art, you are in a limited period and are then your left on your own again. You keep drawing from the internal impresssion that was left with you, trying to fill in the holes that you never got answered. Forever drawing upon that main experience and supplimenting it with otheres that you are also exposed too along your journey. Everyone has someone that impacts there life and spending time with that person is all about quality and not necessarily quantity. I heard Dan Insanto once say that his best students were his overseas ones that he did not see regulary.
Imagine that you don't invent anything, but draw from previously existing knowledge, essentially doing what you feel is a recreation of the original art that you feel had been diluted before you received it.
Everything that is has always been.
Imagine you have an effective martial art but can't sell it as your system... you need controversy. Controversy equates to attention. And if you can just get people to try your system you know a lot of them are going to like it. But people don't want stuff like that, they want a sense of belonging to some older tradition, they crave being able to identify themselves as part of a continuation of an important tradition.
Erle did not make controversy to make money, he was just himself which caused him grief and gave him exposure. He had it in music before taichi. Everybody likes tradition its a form of rooting, but you right not many wanted to learn form a wild man fom Oz who had a big heart, why should he of gotton this path -
Why wouldn't the solution be to invent a man who claims to learn from one of the Yangs, his doctor, lets say, and there is no record of this, or picture of the man... and you meet the man when he is in your country undocumented, again no record. What if your accounts are that he hardly spoke english and a lot of how you learned was by example and that your time with him was rather limited... now you can come up with anything and attribute it to this man, this undocumented person and claim that your proof is the effectiveness of the art!
Its al l about belief, I heard this loads of times and it used to bother me, but no longer. I just believe that he met him, and he changed his direction, focus and course. Not everything wants to believe it because of the claims of the "old yang style", he white, autralian and lived in the back of beyond. Never the less he met an old guy, got hit a few times, learnt some old forms and it changed his knowledge on tai chi to where he continued to draw on it years later. Nowbody is doing the form like Mr Yang, but having seen the old yang structured forms , this is different flavour, but both have a place.
I can list a lot of real martial artists Erle trained with and knew, all of them having records and skills, but there is one that goes undocumented, one that is not mentioned in all of Erles own accounts of how he learned and progressed. One thing i don't want to do to Erle or his legacy is underestimate him. His intelligence and productivity, his obsessive tendencies and his life history indicate that he is just about capable of anything.
Josh Young wrote:wpgtaiji wrote:There is a picture of Chang! He's in the pic with all the Yang family masters!
Where is this picture?
A picture with all the Yang Family masters?
wpgtaiji wrote:btw, seek permission from the owner of the photo before posting it! Ignorance is still liable
Taijiquan is not for killing any more than any other martial art.
wpgtaiji wrote:btw, seek permission from the owner of the photo before posting it! Ignorance is still liable
He was a monk who was deeply versed in Daoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism. In his "On the Great Dao" (Dadao Lun), he stated that these religions had the same origin and they share the tendency to develop one's moral character and "cultivate the Dao."
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