Yang tai chi for beginners

Discuss Taijiquan or other soft styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: Dvivid, Inga, nyang, taiqiman

Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Dvivid » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:59 pm

Here's a sneak peek at a new program coming out in February 2012.

http://ymaa.com/publishing/internal/tai ... ginner_dvd

Im posting it here because you guys have eagle-eyes and I wonder if the description I wrote leaves any question unanswered? Preview trailer video is on the page as well. Let me know what you think when you have a sec.

This is the first time Dr Yang has let me shoot a program with step-by-step instruction of the whole form. Previous videos were made back in the 90s, before my time, and they were demonstration-only, as he wasn't confident about speaking on camera with his heavy accent.
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby yeniseri » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:10 am

It is excellent in that the explanations are geared towards anyone wishing to learn.
Low impact is something people can understand, ability to help with depression through the 'softness', the relaxation, etc in every day language of the people!
Clear language without mysticism so by all means a positive step in the right direction!
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby caesar » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:18 am

Do you think that the DVD would have benefits to someone like me, not learning from Dr. Yang but studying Cheng-Fu form (Dong Family), or could it mix up too much?
caesar
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Josh Young » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:01 am

Very cool.

Is the form done on a grid so that the footwork is easy to follow?
I could not tell from the preview.
I know some teachers use floors with square tiles for this purpose.
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Dvivid » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:57 pm

Yeniseri - thanks!

Caesar - I do think that tai chi practitioners can learn a lot from this because of Dr. Yang's incredible level of detail. We could barely fit this onto a dual-layer DVD because it is five hours of detailed instruction. His form is more closely related to Yang, Ban-Hou (who was the author of 95% of the Yang family poetry used to pass down the art).

Josh - The instructional segment is filmed on a platform with a faintly-visible grid. But, Dr Yang also mentions he is starting facing North, and continually lets you know about the orientation changes. There are also two demonstrations of his form with a full body view, so its impossible to mistake his orientation. And we included a rear view for those of us (!) who prefer to not have to learn in mirror-image. Its very much like attending a class in person with him.

Im really psyched for this one.

Only question Im wondering is if I need to mention it is the "long" form or the "108" form, of if that is A. irrelevant to a newbie, and B. obvious to a practitioner...
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby yeniseri » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:24 pm

caesar wrote:Do you think that the DVD would have benefits to someone like me, not learning from Dr. Yang but studying Cheng-Fu form (Dong Family), or could it mix up too much?


Even though I have over 20 years experience in taijiquan, I still like to see the many Yang styles out there! That is what it means to be openminded! Many people ses other ways of 'playing a form' and they look down upon that difference as negative! Just enjoy it.

I am not a fan of Cheng Manqing style but periodically I see the manner in which some people play it and that is refreshing.
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby vvanesse59 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:47 pm

IN RESPONSE TO MENTIONING WHETHER IS 108 OR LONG FORM, I WOULD FIND THAT VERY RELEVANT AS I HAVE BEEN STUDYING 24 FORM AND CHENG 37 FORM BUT THE FIRST QUESTION I HAD AS I VIEWED THIS REMARKABLE TRAILER IS "I WONDER IF IT IS 24 OR 88 OR 108 FOR WHAT? BY SHOWING PIECES, I COULD ONLY KNOW THAT IT WAS YANG. AS FOR WHETHER IT IS RELEVANT TO NEWBIES, IT MAY BE AS THAT IS A BIG CHUNK TO START OFF WITH BUT THEN AGAIIN IT MAY SCARE NEWBIES OFF IT THEY FIND OUT IT IS 108.
vvanesse59
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:40 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Inga » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:35 pm

Hey Dvivid I like the trailer and I can see why you are excited about the DVD. I wondered when I first saw it if it was only part one of the form, because it's intended for beginners but you make it clear it's the complete form (parts 1, 2 and 3). The idea of a rear view, so one can imagine they are in class (or on the mountain) is wonderful. I am really looking forward to the individual break down of each movement to help me with the applications. Cheers Inga
Inga
Admin
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:55 am
Location: New England

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Dvivid » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:54 am

Great feedback, thank you.

I have another sort of preview coming pretty soon too, I'll post it here when ready.
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby yeniseri » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:14 am

vvanesse59 wrote:IN RESPONSE TO MENTIONING WHETHER IS 108 OR LONG FORM, I WOULD FIND THAT VERY RELEVANT AS I HAVE BEEN STUDYING 24 FORM AND CHENG 37 FORM BUT THE FIRST QUESTION I HAD AS I VIEWED THIS REMARKABLE TRAILER IS "I WONDER IF IT IS 24 OR 88 OR 108 FOR WHAT? BY SHOWING PIECES, I COULD ONLY KNOW THAT IT WAS YANG. AS FOR WHETHER IT IS RELEVANT TO NEWBIES, IT MAY BE AS THAT IS A BIG CHUNK TO START OFF WITH BUT THEN AGAIIN IT MAY SCARE NEWBIES OFF IT THEY FIND OUT IT IS 108.


Just to see the POV of a well known practitioner based on his skill is always positive! Some people like it and others don't. To add, 37 form of Chang Manqing and 24 shi taijiquan are still Yang style but personally I find the 37 form as played by many to be "too limp" though it can simply be changed to be done based on 'individual' teaching and objective orientation. Personally, I am looking at function based on my experience so the forms are actually the same though the order may be rearranged but that is a simple matter. In the end, there is no conflict!
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Dvivid » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:57 am

Good point. You can always learn something from almost any teacher. Master Yang has a way of including tips for intermediate and advanced tai chi players in this video, though it is intended mainly for beginners.

The preview video is getting a lot of traffic very quickly, Im psyched.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YonmpJvw ... ideo_title
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Dvivid » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:23 am

There's an 11-minute clip of the new Yang Tai Chi video embedded (for those who like free stuff) in this article I wrote directed at beginning students.

http://ymaa.com/articles/yang-tai-chi-for-beginners
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby pete5770 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:00 am

Looks very well done and should be very useful for just about any Tai Chi skill level.
I would, however, encourage beginners to find an instructor to get them started. Videos are great for refining movements and techniques but to try and learn footwork and positioning from them can be difficult. I am glad to see that todays videos have the instructors wearing better fitting clothing, as opposed to traditional wear which made them look like they had a sack drapped over them. While I can understand the traditional "dress", you really couldn't get much out of it by watching, as everything was hidden. And maybe this was, and still is, part of the intention of baggy clothes. The opponent can't really tell what's happening and neither could the student.
pete5770
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:16 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Greg Jah » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:10 pm

Hi everyone,

I just received my recently purchased copy of the "Yang Tai Chi For Beginners" DVD, and had a couple of questions/ comments.

First, I really appreciate Sifu Yang Jwing-Ming's careful explanations of each pose, and demonstration of the combat applications. These, for me, in themselves justified the purchase of the DVD. I also appreciated the attention to production detail (subtitling, etc) as well as the inclusion of the form demonstrated from the rear view.

However, I was a bit thrown by the beginning of the form, which I learned as:

Commencement
Ward off Left
Ward off Right
Roll back
etc.

The sequence demonstrated on the DVD goes:

Commencement
Grasping Sparrow's Tail Right
Grasping Sparrows Tail Left
Ward off Right
Roll back
etc.

Also, there are 113 movements in the DVD form, as opposed to 108 (as I was expecting.)

Any insight as to the origin/ significance of these differences? Why would there be two different moves and 113 movements Sifu Yang Jwing Ming's teaching of the 108, if this is a traditional form? Or is this an interpretation of the 108 that is unique to Sifu Yang Jwing-Ming?

I hope my questions make sense. So far, I am really enjoying the learning a great deal from the DVD.

Best,

Greg
Greg Jah
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby brer_momonga » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:20 am

Greg Jah wrote:Hi everyone,

I just received my recently purchased copy of the "Yang Tai Chi For Beginners" DVD, and had a couple of questions/ comments.

First, I really appreciate Sifu Yang Jwing-Ming's careful explanations of each pose, and demonstration of the combat applications. These, for me, in themselves justified the purchase of the DVD. I also appreciated the attention to production detail (subtitling, etc) as well as the inclusion of the form demonstrated from the rear view.

However, I was a bit thrown by the beginning of the form, which I learned as:

Commencement
Ward off Left
Ward off Right
Roll back
etc.

The sequence demonstrated on the DVD goes:

Commencement
Grasping Sparrow's Tail Right
Grasping Sparrows Tail Left
Ward off Right
Roll back
etc.

Also, there are 113 movements in the DVD form, as opposed to 108 (as I was expecting.)

Any insight as to the origin/ significance of these differences? Why would there be two different moves and 113 movements Sifu Yang Jwing Ming's teaching of the 108, if this is a traditional form? Or is this an interpretation of the 108 that is unique to Sifu Yang Jwing-Ming?

I hope my questions make sense. So far, I am really enjoying the learning a great deal from the DVD.

Best,

Greg


there was a similar discussion here a couple of years ago: http://ymaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4959

wow, it actually was a couple of years ago! lol

Grasp Sparrow's tail right and then left in Yang Jwing-Ming's sequence at first seems strange when compared to the Yang longform sequence made popular by Yang Zhenduo form and the one Fu Zhongwen attributes to Yang Cheng Fu.

As for why Master Yang Jwing-Ming starts the form with a Grasp Sparrow's tail Right and then left, I cannot say - I never thought to ask him. It seems like an extra move if you are used to the popular Yang long form. Perhaps Yang Jwing-Ming learned it that way so he carries it on, kind of like the signature. Ralteria point out that, "A right ward off before a left ward off before the full grasp sparrows tail sequence is not uncommon in Taijiquan forms transmitted before Yang Cheng Fu's 1930's standardization." Its inclusion suggests that Yang Jwing-Ming's Yang form draws from a source dating prior to Yang Cheng Fu's 1930 standardization.
brer_momonga
Forum Specialist
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Greg Jah » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:47 am

Thank you for the thoughtful response and the link to the discussion about deviations among Yang style forms. A lot of food for thought.

I am still trying to get a sense of the differences between Yang styles as related lineage/ instructors. As I am new to Tai Chi, it is very confusing. For example, my first teacher taught the 108 with the ward off left/ right sequence in the beginning. His movements, however, were very similar to Master Yang Jwing-Ming's.

At any rate, I appreciate your helping me to understand why this form is the way it is. Now I think I will go and practice...

Have a great day, everyone!

Greg
Greg Jah
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Monsoon » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:56 pm

I sued to wonder about this too. You could just start with ward off left and ignore the opening grasp sparrow right. Not sure that it makes much difference overall, though happy to be shown otherwise.

Also, numbering of moves is always contentious. Do you count the sequence cloud hands right, cloud hands left, cloud hands right, as 3 moves or 1 move. A case could be made for both. In liuhebafa there is a single titled move called 'wild horse chases the wind' which actually requires 3 steps. Perhaps it would be better if someone were to look at taiji forms and break it down into sequences rather than the limited concept of individual moves.

Just a thought.
peace and harmony

monsoon
Monsoon
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby chh » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:01 pm

Greg, I posted a question related to the issues you're talking about in a new thread, and I linked to this one.

I also tried to write something based on my limited knowledge of the YMAA system that would address your 113/108 question and the question about ward off/grasp sparrow's tail. I hope some kind of discussion ensues and sheds some more light!
chh
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:09 pm

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Dvivid » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:12 pm

In fact, Master Yang's form is really 108 postures or "movement patterns". The extra five movements counted are the transitions that are traditionally taught, but not numbered.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Yang tai chi for beginners

Postby Silkreeler37 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:23 am

This program has done more for my Taiji teaching and practice than I can begin to convey with words. Very good quality. Very informative. Demonstration of the form with the disciples. Well worth the purchase. Thank you!

Daniel Kelley

(Tai Chi Coach)
You cannot cut the man to fit the coat.
Silkreeler37
Forum User
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:56 pm

Next

Return to Taijiquan / Tai Chi Chuan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
©2013 YMAA | About YMAA | Privacy Policy |Terms of Use | Permissions | Contact Us