sub_human wrote:I had not known that Erle was an "expert" in Traditional Chinese Medicine.
wpgtaiji wrote:sub_human wrote:I had not known that Erle was an "expert" in Traditional Chinese Medicine.
No one ever said he was an expert! He worked with a man named Chris Madden, who was. Wally is also there. He also met top TCM doctor's (highlighted on MTG 6), literally, of the family who wrote acupuncture text books.
I wish it was easy to post a link to the clip, but alas, I dont hold copyright on ANY Moontagu title, and the 3-10 minute clips he put up on YouTube generally dont show the bits where he talks about his past and stuff.
As to the meridian theory, I wish it was Erle who came up with it. It was he who shared the info with reference to taiji, but the information has always been available in the internal arts (at least back to Sun luc tang, who wrote the first books on the idea, as far as I am aware). Josh, you are fixated on ONE person with this idea, but you have missed the other stylists (in other arts) who say the same thing. THat is what struck me the most about Erle. People who never met him, nor had any knowledge of what he was doing, teach the very same ideas. How? He took it from them?? I dont think so! Erle has the methods on video at the time when the other teacher was just starting out his journey! Interesting...
Please, lets get back to the topics and stop trying to debase the messenger. While I, personally, have quoted Erle on this forum, I am extremely flexible and feel just as comfortable discussing a variety of other "master's" materials. Let's get back to what a forum is for. People have been saying things about Erle for a long time, but never EVER to his face. I wonder why? Oh right! He had the goods and taught it openly, which is more than most of us would have ever done.
Please, lets get back to the topics and stop trying to debase the messenger. While I, personally, have quoted Erle on this forum, I am extremely flexible and feel just as comfortable discussing a variety of other "master's" materials.
Inga wrote:Please heed Dvivid's posting that we accept all forms of taiji here. Wpgtaiji has made the point, which I think is well taken, please keep to topic and stop making personal criticisms. If people here enjoy caustic argument, then feel free to swap your private emails via PM and continue your conversation in private. Airing sarcastic and dismissive comments here detracts from the exchange of experience, knowledge and information which the forum wishes to promote.
wpgtaiji wrote:No one ever said he was an expert! He worked with a man named Chris Madden, who was. Wally is also there. He also met top TCM doctor's (highlighted on MTG 6), literally, of the family who wrote acupuncture text books.
Josh, you are fixated on ONE person with this idea, but you have missed the other stylists (in other arts) who say the same thing. THat is what struck me the most about Erle. People who never met him, nor had any knowledge of what he was doing, teach the very same ideas. How?
People have been saying things about Erle for a long time, but never EVER to his face. I wonder why?
Oh right! He had the goods and taught it openly, which is more than most of us would have ever done.
Josh Young wrote:A lot of his content is not said by anyone but him, this relates to his copyrights for exclusive content. I don't know of another system that claims that Cheng-fu became fat because of the angle his arm was at in a single posture. My issues with some of Erles teachings come from them contradicting teachings of internal martial arts. He has a lot of content about meridians that is unique to him that comes from his collaborations, I appreciate a lot of it. I still work with a WTBA instructor for training and appreciate the martial content of the system, but that doesn't mean I am going to believe that 2+2=17 just because Erle said so.
wpgtaiji wrote:And the important thing is, neither do I! Like i put, you focus on Erle, but you neglect (and worse, are not even aware) that other people and arts teach the same ideas (what you call meridian theory)!
Its all out there mate! In fact, most of what Erle taught, and more important, HOW he taught things is being done in other styles, unrelated to the WTBA.
As to the Chen fu thing.. mate, I have no idea how you pieced it together that way. The chart, which you copied previous, says that Fist under Elbow (chen fu), vs the posture done in the old yang style, is used to Gain Weight... he never said anywhere (and I have looked deeply and even asked him about it when he was around) that gaining weight is fat! Gaining weight, he meant, was adding muscle mass. Where you got "get fat", I have no idea.
Also, that chart was not his! He put it out there, but he did not make it up. I asked him about a few of the postures (how that same posture in luchan looses weight), and he told he that he really wasn't sure, that it was what he was told.
He reasoned it had something to do with the Earth meridians (spleen/stomach) being twisted in the posture, as well as the vigor of the way the posture is done.
Some of the postures, like Grasp Swallows tail (Prep to An, for those who separate the postures in general), work on the colon, and are easily shown.
Back to the original idea of the topic, I find it interesting that you sort of like the idea that Taiji is one movement. I find it interesting because the main principle of that idea, is something you have already talked down to me.
That is why I wrote, that the idea, while nice, is not easy, especially, if you dont agree with or know the foundation ideas the original comment was made on.
wpgtaiji wrote:To answer the only question, NO mate. Not much of what you write, I read.
As to the rest...
- How do we move (using qi)? - please, educate me on this.
- please read again..
- good for you
- please show me where that is put? i didnt get that at all my bad..
Thanks mate. I totally missed that you wanted elaboration.
Why on f*(king earth would anyone choose to put forth the effort to write as much as you ask, only to have it misunderstood, line by line, or worse, misrepresented.
I have a life outside of this forum.
wpgtaiji wrote:You make some excellent points! Why am I here?
wpgtaiji wrote: I dont ever recall putting that Chenfu was useless. In fact, I use it quite frequently (just finished a round 10 minutes ago). There are many established teachers in the WTBA that teach it, and there are LOTS of DVDs on that form at Mootagu. A far cry from what some claim I wrote!
Josh, you are looking for taiji sources for the chart, but you arent seeing what is actually on the chart. Taiji is not static. It is a moving sequence. The chart points to some very deep ideas that are shared across other arts.
On this forum, I have no idea what people know
And besides, there are people who disagree with how Erle taught fajing, or even that what he taught is fajing! Funny thing about that is, how can you, if you dont accept that premise, even begin to discuss taiji being ONE MOVEMENT, when at its root, its THAT!
Everything moves together, as one unit, using one energy. But if a person understands fajing as an explosion only, then it is difficult to see how the energy is reused.
Josh Young wrote:Did I claim you wrote that?
I don't recall saying writing or thinking that was your view. I have no problem debating and discussing the pros and cons of the Cheng-fu form, but I've yet to see you say it is useless.
Gord, it is a taiji chart.
It is about taiji postures.
What if everything you KNOW to be true, turns out to be not?
Dvivid wrote:I would say we don't need such a cynical and negative view about present-day Taijiquan. If you judge taiji by your Mom's group at the park doing some health-oriented practice, then you're only seeing a fraction of what's happening.
As far as taiji being "one posture", its a lot of blithering. Yes, there is the concept of "No shadow, no shape, no form". But Taijiquan originated from the basic 13 postures, or more accurately, 'energy patterns', and this basis has remained intact, explained in great detail, at least since Chen Village began, and likely long before.
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