Sabres - choice and application

Discuss Taijiquan or other soft styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: nyang, Dvivid, Inga, taiqiman

Sabres - choice and application

Postby Monsoon » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:45 am

Okay, first post and here goes (be gentle with the noobie!)

Regarding Yang style Sabre routines and training: is the type of sabre really all that important? Or, to put it another way, is it acceptable to practice this form using a sabre that does not conform the Yang Sabre?

The reason I ask this is because a. Yang sabres are expensive (for me), and b. Yang sabres are not that common compared with other types of dao.

Many thanks,

Monsoon
peace and harmony

monsoon
Monsoon
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby fazhou » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:35 am

Welcome to the forum! I am interested in this question as well and recently posted a similar question on the Great River Taoist Center forum. The response I got was that any dao would be fine although there are certain techniques that utilize the "z" guard of the Yang saber. I just recently ordered a jian from JKOO forge and almost ordered a dao as well, the only thing stopping me was your question. Hopefully someone "in the know" will come along with specific details?
fazhou
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:20 pm
Location: Ipan Talofofo, Guam

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby Monsoon » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:03 pm

Thanks!

I have suspected that, beyond very special techniques, using any other dao would be acceptable. The other part of the problem is to do with quality versus cost (isn't it always! :D )

The Hanwei Yang Sabre looks very nice, is priced around US$200 and has got some good reviews. I have yet to see a review of any other Yang Sabres (by different manufacturers) despite a fair bit of searching. The Yang Family website sells a couple of versions at around US$110-135 (but no reviews) and there are some available at places like Beijinig Imports (slightly lower prices) but once again no reviews. This is frustrating for me as, having a limited funding stream to play with, I simply cannot afford to experiment with purchasing and would prefer to get something decent first time of asking (if possible). At the moment the Hanwei version is looking good simply on the basis of review versus no review.

What do other people use?

Monsoon

Edit: what are the prices like at JKOO (sinosword) - as they don't put them online?

edited 1 time by Monsoon 20/9/12 14:08
peace and harmony

monsoon
Monsoon
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby fazhou » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:45 am

I'll wait to actually receive the jian (any time now) from sinosword before I comment on value. A few guys at the SBG forum have posted mostly positive reviews. I paid $350 plus shipping for a sword that I was able to spec. I can't wait!
fazhou
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:20 pm
Location: Ipan Talofofo, Guam

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby Dvivid » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:23 pm

Learning saber technique is the foundation of learning sword technique, traditionally.

Just get a cheap wooden saber. http://www.amazon.com/Tiger-Claw-Wooden ... B0000C7CCE

And I recommend:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1736
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby Monsoon » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:57 pm

Thanks Dvivid, I will certainly consider the DVD. However, at the moment I am testing the waters of the sword market before jumping in. While living in Shanghai, for the last few months of 2011, I was taught the basics of Yang 32 Jian as a prelude to the full form. I realise that this might seem to be in the wrong order (traditionally), but it just happened!

Regarding wooden wasters... yeah, never going to happen. I really dislike them and prefer to practice with a live blade despite the inherent dangers (my choice though, and I don't do this in a group setting). For me, owning these weapons is not just about utility but also about aesthetics. Wooden swords have little of the former and none of the latter.

I am surprised that I am getting virtually no response to my initial query, either here or on other forums. This suggests that not many people practice sabre? A little disappointing perhaps.

Monsoon
peace and harmony

monsoon
Monsoon
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby brer_momonga » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:29 pm

Monsoon wrote:I am surprised that I am getting virtually no response to my initial query, either here or on other forums. This suggests that not many people practice sabre? A little disappointing perhaps.

Monsoon


I can't speak for those practicing proper Yang taijiquan sabre, but I practice kung fu sabre. I use the common wooden dao for now (very similar to the one Dvivid suggested someone start with). Mine is barely in one piece actually and too long for me - it doesn't rest properly against my shoulder - but it has the right cut for gripping near the tip on the dull side to control a knife attack and has the right hilt for our purpose. I'm still learning the basics of our form so the quality of my blade is the least of my problems. I think I'll get a better wooden one (and right size, custom made if need be) before moving on to using a live one. One of these days I may invest in a live blade but it's not a priority of mine.

your instructor must have thought highly of your footwork to suggest sword before hand form. practicing with a weapon helps me remember to be more deliberate with my hands in the hand form though...

have fun!
brer_momonga
Forum Specialist
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby Monsoon » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:43 pm

Ah, my bad. I am already versed in the hand form (not an expert though obviously!). The 32 jian was taught to me in an obscure suburban park in Shanghai - far from any commercial centre and was totally free. It has given me an insight into the sword forms in general, hence my desire to take a step back and go for a sabre.

As for wooden swords, well... each to his own and no judgement from me. I just prefer genuine weapons. If I get to the point where I am sparring with it then I might consider a waster initially.

regards,

Monsoon
peace and harmony

monsoon
Monsoon
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby Josh Young » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:41 am

If you ever choose to work with wooden sword like objects I would suggest a pickaxe handle for Dao work it has the right weight and balance. I would avoid any wooden swords that are too light, they can harm your skill with a real sword.

It is a common issue with jian and dao that people who train with wooden swords cannot handle real weapons because they feel they are too heavy. When I say cannot handle I mean they cannot make cuts properly with them, and test cutting should be employed when doing weapons work to ensure you are learning the techniques properly. It is like training applications practice for the hand forms. Someone may be great as the sword and dao forms but lack skill in using the sword and dao because they have no edge control with a true cut.
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Sabres - choice and application

Postby brer_momonga » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:56 am

Josh Young wrote:If you ever choose to work with wooden sword like objects I would suggest a pickaxe handle for Dao work it has the right weight and balance. I would avoid any wooden swords that are too light, they can harm your skill with a real sword.

It is a common issue with jian and dao that people who train with wooden swords cannot handle real weapons because they feel they are too heavy. When I say cannot handle I mean they cannot make cuts properly with them, and test cutting should be employed when doing weapons work to ensure you are learning the techniques properly. It is like training applications practice for the hand forms. Someone may be great as the sword and dao forms but lack skill in using the sword and dao because they have no edge control with a true cut.


excellent point. I meant to mention the importance of heavy/properly weighted wooden swords in my response - thanks for bringing it up.
brer_momonga
Forum Specialist
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA


Return to Taijiquan / Tai Chi Chuan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

cron