Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Discuss Taijiquan or other soft styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: nyang, Dvivid, Inga, taiqiman

Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Dragon_Gyatso » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:29 pm

I guess I could say I am fairly new to Tai Chi.

Ive been reading books.. seen the DVD's..
My question is on regulating the body.
Regulating the mind and breathing are more obvious in my opinion.. Ive understood that through stationary Taiji Qigong practice.

My question is on rooting and balance I guess? Regulating the body.
After reading and pulling from at least 2 or 3 different books by Dr. Yang on regulating the body in either Tai Chi or qigong I still find myself confused.
I have an idea as to what it is.

I understand the clear mind.
Using your Yi.
Relaxation of the body originated from the Yi.

I mean do rooting and balance all just come from practice?
The way I understood it was is to practice, say the moving taiji qigong set, until each movement is easy and you feel little to no strain performing it.
That is to put it simply, after or while performing the exercises you body should be regulated or adjusted enough to where you dont sweat much or the the intensity feels so low it does not bring your heart rate up. Basically you've just become extremely adjusted. Like if you bench the same weight over and over again. After 12 weeks of doing so, you can bench about 50 reps with great ease.
Am I correct in this thinking?
Aside from the centered Yi, which of course takes practice as well, that the balance and rooting and centering just comes from extended practice?

If I am incorrect, please correct me! :)
Dragon_Gyatso
Forum User
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby wpgtaiji » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:59 pm

It has been a long while since I have reviewed Dr Yang's material, but I think i can clarify it a bit for you.

Regulating the body simply means making sure that the outer posture is correct (although, that, in and of itself, is not easy! Some people, after decades still dont have that correct). The other stuff is more advanced and is worked on as you develop, at least, from an outsider looking at the material.

To make it easy, get the postures 100% correct, and the linking movements 100% correct. Then you can start to worry about regulating the mind (which will be distracted until you get the body right), and regulating the breath (which is generally considered by more than a few teachers (though mine wasnt one of them) to be the least important of the aspects to worry about in the beginning).

Good luck! btw, if your taiji ever becomes "easy", then you need to relearn the art.
wpgtaiji
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Dragon_Gyatso » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:56 pm

Thank you so much!
I greatly appreciate your response, and yes it does clear things up!

I've read through the forums and I have seen your name come up a lot..
You do seem to be knowledgable on the subject (at least much more so than i am, haha).

Thank you very much. :)
Dragon_Gyatso
Forum User
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby wpgtaiji » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:29 am

Dragon_Gyatso wrote:You do seem to be knowledgable on the subject


Thank you, but many here consider me an outsider, and in most respects, I am. While I invested insane amounts of time in my younger days reading and researching a lot of books on the subject of martial arts, in the last few years, I no longer worry so much. I still research, but now, it is mostly from the forms themselves (which isnt easy because you have to be doing about 100 things correct to get the form to be able to work with you - oh c*(p... another "outsider" statement!! You mean the taiji form will teach you?? Yep. IF you have the basics of it correct. it is a scary but exciting thing to happen).

Book worms dont understand this aspect, and prefer to quote citation after citation, and that is fine. IT is just a stage of learning. My suggestion is to get a recording device (laptops with built in webcams are good if you can record video, as they are portable), and record yourself! If i had done this years ago, i would have learned things even faster (and i was a slow, fast learner).

One of the things that this and another forum taught me was, NEVER believe anything from postres on a martial arts forum! LOL Now how much do you believe from me? :) That is the $10,000,000 question :)

Good luck
wpgtaiji
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Josh Young » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:45 pm

Regulating the body simply means making sure that the outer posture is correct


I contest this notion, it is overly simplistic.
I would say it means paying attention to the insides, breath and mind most of all and that the outer postures can vary a great deal and be effective. The external is just superficial and is a lot more trivial than many believe. I know the bookworms disagree.

I'm an outside here too though. :wink:
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby wpgtaiji » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:04 am

Josh Young wrote:
Regulating the body simply means making sure that the outer posture is correct


I contest this notion, it is overly simplistic.
I would say it means paying attention to the insides, breath and mind most of all and that the outer postures can vary a great deal and be effective. The external is just superficial and is a lot more trivial than many believe. I know the bookworms disagree.


The problem with your answer is, that has nothing to do with the question! The question is SPECIFICALLY about Regulating the body! In the book, he talks about Regulating the Body, THEN Regulating the Mind, Regulating the breath, etc. It is NOT one thing, it is 5 separate areas to focus on.
wpgtaiji
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby sengstan2 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:09 am

Hi Dragon_Gyatso,

Here is what Dr Yang says about regulating the body, it is about qigong but is also valid for Taijiquan. Hope its helps.

"Regulating the Body (Tiao Shen, 調身)

When you learn any qigong, either moving or still, the first step is to learn the correct postures or movements. After you have learned the postures and movements, learn how to improve them until you can perform the forms accurately. Then you start to regulate your body until it has reached the stage that could provide the best condition for the qi to build up or to circulate.

In still qigong practice or soft qigong movement, this means to adjust your body until it is in the most comfortable and relaxed state. This implies that your body must be centered and balanced. If it is not, you will be tense and uneasy, and this will affect the judgment of your yi and the circulation of your qi. In Chinese medical society it is said: “[When] shape [body’s posture] is not correct, then the qi will not be smooth. [When] the qi is not smooth, the yi [wisdom mind] will not be peaceful. [When] the yi is not peaceful, then the qi is disordered." You should understand that the relaxation of your body originates with your yi. Therefore, before you can relax your body, you must first relax or regulate your mind (yi). This is called "shen xin ping heng," (身心平衡) which means "body and heart [i.e., mind] balanced." The body and the mind are mutually related. A relaxed and balanced body helps your yi to relax and concentrate. When your yi is at peace and can judge things accurately, your body will be relaxed, balanced, centered, and rooted. Only when you are rooted can you raise up your spirit of vitality.


Best
Sengtsan
sengstan2
Forum User
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:29 am

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Josh Young » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:29 am

Therefore, before you can relax your body, you must first relax or regulate your mind (yi)

This. :D

I mean do rooting and balance all just come from practice?

Yes but they are aspects of mind and body as one.
One cannot regulate the body without regulating the mind too.

Regulating the body is beyond just the practice of the physical external postures, those affect the body and mind, but do not amount to regulating the body.

Regulating the body simply means making sure that the outer posture is correct

This I disagree with.
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby wpgtaiji » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:08 pm

josh, you are correct, but STICK to the question! In YMAA, Dr Yang breaks it up into 5 levels of understanding. So, while the body DOES affect the mind and spirit, etc, Regulationg the Body is ONLY concerned with regulationg the body! Regulating the Mind is concerned with regulating the mind, etc. They are separate and distinct methods in the YMAA program, that DOWN THE ROAD, blend into one.
wpgtaiji
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby sengstan2 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:36 am

Dr Yang writes in _Taijiquan Theory of Dr Yang_ page 54 the following about Regulating the body:

"As explained before, Taijiquan is a martial Qigong which follows the regular, normal training procedures of Qigong practice. These procedures are: regulating the body (Tiao Shen), breath (Tiao Xi), mind (Tiao Xin), Qi (Tiao Qi), and then spirit (Tiao Shen). Regulating the body is the first step in the entire regulating process. However, you must use the mind as the controlling center of your entire being. This is because if the mind is not steady and calm, the thinking cannot be clear and the feeling cannot be accurate. Remember that feeling is the language of mind-body communication. In order to have deep feeling, your body must be calm and the mind must be peaceful. From this, you can see that the process of regulating the body cannot be accomplished in isolation. It must coordinate and harmonize with other criteria. Only if you have provided a relaxed physical body and a calm mind, can your spirit stay in its residence without being disturbed. When this happens, the Spirit of Vitality can be raised. "

Hence the five regulations can't be trained separately. They are interlocked from the very beginning of the training.
sengstan2
Forum User
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:29 am

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Dragon_Gyatso » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:23 am

Wooow!
I didnt expect to get this much feedback.. this is awesome, to say the least.

Sengstan, I have actually read that entry before.
I pulled the info on regulating from his book on classical taijiquan, the essence of taiji qigong, and qigong for health and martial arts. But thank you for reposting that.
And thank you even more so for the second quote from his book on taiji theory.

After more recent practice, I understand more using the mind as the center for balancing and rooting.

You said the 5 regulations cannot be trained separately.
For the beginner who does not yet have a strong idea of the feeling of qi, how can regulating the qi be possible?
I understand using the yi in regulating the body (balancing, rooting, form), regulating the breathing, and since using the yi to regulate the two you are in the process of regulating the yi as well.
I understand true regulating is regulating without regulating, but again doing the 3 together is the process of training until one reaches true regulation.
Then what of the regulating of the qi?
I use again the example of the moving taiji qigong set, can the qi be regulated at all if a good idea of qi is not yet present?
Then until you have a developed a good idea of qi and can lead it during stationary qigong, you basically can only regulate the body, mind, and breath. correct?
Again, please correct me if Im wrong.

I also thank wpgtaiji and Josh!
You all have been pretty helpful so far. :D
Dragon_Gyatso
Forum User
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Josh Young » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:08 pm

I use again the example of the moving taiji qigong set, can the qi be regulated at all if a good idea of qi is not yet present?


Qi is not something you lack and then gain, as you likely know.

Qi is always there, it always flows, initially focusing upon relaxation will allow it's circulation to improve and eliminate potential blockages, this should be focused upon before one begins to do more work on circulating it via the Yi in various circuits, and then storing and releasing it etc. This initial focus upon relaxation will have a regulating effect that can be the platform for further study and practice. At least this is my understanding, it may be quite poor.
Josh Young
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Regulating the Body - Yang Style Taijiquan

Postby Dragon_Gyatso » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:34 pm

Well I meant the feeling of qi. while it is always flowing there is a difference between feeling it flowing and just having it flow with no idea as to how it feels.. or rather unconsciously (if that is an acceptable term to use?)

But the answer you gave was a good one.
As the Yi focuses more and becomes more clear and the body postures link together and flow better, and as there is a greater level of relaxation, the presence can be felt more.
At least, thats what I have felt during practice.

Ill just have to continue with stationary taiji qigong until the qi is flowing with a greater intensity or rather can be felt more circulating through the body.
All of it is a lot of work.. and managing it with my neuroscience studies is a challenge..
But so far it all has been a marvelous experience.
And what is amazing is that it only continues to grow.

wpgtaiji:

You mentioned learning from the forms.. That as you learn and practice them, they also teach you and you grow upon them. I dont see how that can be an outsider view seeing as it follows the formula of equilibrium.. everything is balanced. Taijiquan is an endlessly flowing art and there is so much more to it than people like to give it credit for. I agree with what you said..

(This is a off topic, but I recently joined a fencing team.. and the aspects or fundamentals of taiji saber really do wonders when you apply them in a fencing situation.. I guess its not just saber but all taiji fundamentals.. the biggest being feeling or listening. Amazing stuff.. )
Dragon_Gyatso
Forum User
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:25 pm


Return to Taijiquan / Tai Chi Chuan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests

cron