Qigong and Vasectomy

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Qigong and Vasectomy

Postby SageMorpheus » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:54 pm

Throughout the Qigong literature, there is much discussion about preserving the "original essence", and the preserving of male hormones by way of the seminal fluids. Question: What is the effect of a vasectomy on preserving the original essence? My understanding is the sperm goes nowhere, eventually dies, and gets absorbed into the body. But what about the rest of the fluids, and does it affect the Qigong practice, especially Qigong meditation and embrionic breathing.
Last edited by SageMorpheus on Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dvivid » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:24 pm

I spoke to Dr Yang about this, and he says only." This is unnatural, and so I don't recommend it."

Neither of us are aware of any recent studies of vasectomy from a Chinese medical/qigong perspective. This is a popular topic, so I will do more research...
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Postby darth_freak » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:55 pm

if what links your testicles to your body is cut, how can you expect it to be absorbed? and quicly enough there'd be no semen so nothing to absorb anyway. Try to find something on how the sexual system works because I'm not 100% sure. But I do think that if "the way is shut" nothing can go there... :?
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Postby Brian » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:39 am

Hi all

Get more info on vasectomy here:

http://vasectomy-facts.com/about-vasectomy.html

Personall, after 10 years being 'snipped' I have encountered no problems either in my QiGong practice or in my Taiji. If anything, my Qi circulation and expression (fa jin) are stronger now than in the past.

Hope this helps

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Postby Dvivid » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:49 am

Thanks Brian, I often wonder about this. Any more info you can provide would probably very helpful to the others considering this option...
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Postby Alex_Qc » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:17 pm

Hi everyone,

I am a medical student and I have always wondered the same thing, whether vasectomy helps you to keep you “essence/jing”.

Here’s a few basic info from Wikipedia on vasectomy:
“Vasectomy is a birth control method in which all or part of a male's vas deferens are surgically removed, thus sterilizing the patient. Vasectomy should not be confused with castration: vasectomy does not involve removal of the testicles and it affects neither the production of male sex hormones (mainly testosterone) nor their secretion into the bloodstream. Therefore sexual desire (libido) and the ability to have an erection and an orgasm with an ejaculation are not usually affected.

Because the sperm itself makes up a very small proportion of the ejaculate, vasectomy does not significantly affect the volume, appearance, texture or flavor of the ejaculate.

When the vasectomy is complete, sperm can no longer exit the body through the penis. They are broken down and absorbed by the body. Fluid content is absorbed by membranes in the epididymis, and solid content is broken down by macrophages and re-absorbed via the blood stream. Sperm is matured in the epididymis for about a month once it leaves the testicles, and approximately 50% of the sperm produced never make it to ejaculation in a non-vasectomized man. After vasectomy, the membranes increase in size to absorb more fluid, and more macrophages are recruited to break down and re-absorb the solid content.” (Wikipedia.org, search vasectomy)

So what does it mean from a Qigong point of view?

First of all, one must realize that ancient Qigong practitioners observed that frequent ejaculations were bad for their health/Qi. But this was only a general observation: they had no idea that semen was made up of many substances. Therefore, we can’t really be sure what they mean by “loosing your essence by ejaculation”.

For example, sperms are produced in the testes, but they represent only about 2-5% of your semen. They might be important for Qigong since they are the crucial element in fecundation. (You don’t “loose” sperm if you are vasectomized.)

At the same time, about 70% of your semen is produce by your seminal vesicle (next to your prostate). This liquid contains lot of fructose. This type of sugar is the main source of energy for sperms. (It doesn’t matter if you are vasectomized, you will still loose that fluid.)

Therefore, does “Essence/jing” refer to sperm or it actually means the highly caloric fluid that goes with it?

(Just tell me if my explanation is not clear at all ;))
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Postby Alex_Qc » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:21 pm

“Is vasectomy harmful” brings us to the question of what exactly is Essence, and Marrow/Brain Washing deals with this subject so:

Marrow/Brain Washing involves converting this Essence into Qi. To improve essence production, they often massage their testicules. This might help us to understand what is essence/jing.

Massaging could directly increase your sperm production and/or your testosterone production. I try to look for research that shows increase hormone level after stimulation, but there is not much stuff on that. However, massaging can’t directly increase your seminal fluid since the seminal vesicles are not situated in your testicle (but there might be an indirect effect due to the increased testosterone level…).

Unfortunately, this shows that it is not easy nor simple to understand Qigong practice from a physiological point of view. Essence could be one of the following (or a mix of the following):

1) sperm (the formation of sperm might require lot of energy and/or Qi)

2) testosterone (I believe Master Yang thinks hormones are Essence/Jing. However, I wonder if you actually loose any testosterone when you ejaculate…)

3) seminal fluid rich in sugar content (the main constituent of semen)

But always remember the human body is so complex, that too simple explanations tend to be wrong…

In this case, I think our best guide is Brian's own experience with vasectomy (which suggests that Essence/Jing is not really seminal fluid).
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Postby Brian » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:45 am

Aaahh! at last...some professional input...thank you Alex_Qc.

With regard to what 'Essence/Jing' is, my approach to this is to regard the energy/Qi to be present in every cell of the body, as a necessary constituent for the existance/life of those cells (Dr. Yang refers to Qi as 'Bio-energy'). Then, much like feeding and training an army, I use the Yi/Intention with QiGong practice to build up and concentrate the Qi in my body.
This makes it available for health/healing or for expression with martial intent in the taiji form or push hands.

I expect this topic will provide more discussion...it certainly is an interesting one!

** Wishing Dr. Yang and Family, all at YMAA and all Forum users a very Happy Christmas and a Peaceful New Year **

Regards

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Postby darth_freak » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:28 am

hmm. intersesting. And have you ever felt a difference when you use the preineum and when you don't? I've often wondered if it was the preineum action that lead up the qi from the testicles or the other organs where Alex think the qi from no sex may come from...

But basicly, Brian, what qigong do you practice, beside taiji?
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Postby Brian » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:09 am

The Hui Yin is located between the genitals and the anus; the part of the body called the perineum. When the Perineum is strong, the organs remain firm and healthy; when it is weak the organs lose cohesiveness and Qi energy drains away. Because this Centre is the gate through which Qi energy from the other organs can be either retained or lost, it is called the "Gate of Life and Death."

This centre constitutes the lowest of the Yin or descending energy chakras, and is the lower meeting point of the Governor or Yang, and the Conception or Yin nadis or channels. It is connected to the element Earth and hence corresponds to the physical plane of existence, and is (through the feet) the main link with the Earth Qi energy.

I train mainly Zhang Zhuan (Standing) QiGong, but I also train White Crane and Taiji QiGong as well.
When doing standing QiGong the 'tail bone' (coccyx) is tucked forward slightly thereby closing the Perineum, thus preventing loss of Qi.

Regards

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Postby Dvivid » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:46 am

I discussed this with Master Yang, and his answer is simply:
"Vasectomy is not a natural human behavior, so I do not recommend it. Until studies are done to accurately measure Qi, and the effect of vasectomy on the essence, it should be avoided if possible."

Of course, some of us need to go this route and have a vasectomy, and so those who do are pioneers in this area, and hopefully you will continue to share your experience and progress in qigong training as it pertains to any changes or lack thereof caused by vasectomy.

Also, to be clear: Master Yang teaches that he the term 'original essence' or 'pre-birth essence' refers to the combination of the hormones and inherited genes. You inherit a certain 'vitality' from your parents. This can be altered and improved gradually through your practice. This essence cannot be converted into Qi. But the essence (hormones/neurotransmitters) is a catalyst in the body, that expedites the metabolic function, which in turn produces energy, or Qi.

So, specifically pertaining to the testicles (known as the external kidneys in TCM), by building up the hormones stored in the fluid from these glands, you are able to produce more Qi. The other glands also produce hormones and play a role, but the testicles/ovaries are a key gland in qigong.

So, the real question here is, are there hormones in the fluid that is 'cut off' by vasectomy? Do these hormones stay in the body? Or is only the sperm 'cut off' by vasectomy, and the hormones lost in ejaculation remain the same?

Increasing and preserving a high level of hormones and other glandular fluids is one of the main goals in qigong practice.

Any Doctors?
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Postby darth_freak » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:53 pm

Brian,

I was also wondering if you still have sex kind of regularly. And if you do, do you feel an effect on your qi feeling after the intercourse?


(as far as I understood, when you're cut, you get sterile but you can still ejaculate the fluids of the prostrate and seminal vesicle)
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Postby Brian » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:45 am

Darth_freak

Without giving too much away in relation to those private moments...I use a Tantric practice that I used before the vasectomy, ie, to internalise the orgasm by using the yi to circulate as much of the energy as possible within the body even though ejaculation was taking place. This results in a body-wide sensation of heightened pleasure.

Hope this answers your question.

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Postby darth_freak » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:48 am

yes it does. Thank you.

Could you tell me what are your references for tantrism? Some books? Some guy? Seminars? I'd rather be interested in the circulation during the act.

And if people know his reference, what do you think of it?
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Postby Brian » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:40 am

H Darth_freak

It was a book...it was long ago..I no longer have it...and unfortunately I cannot remember the title.

It outlined various techniques for conserving energy and extending pleasure. I expect if you did a search you would find many such books available, and maybe even classes/seminars in Tantric practices.

Regards

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Postby darth_freak » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:40 pm

Well the problem is actually that there're too many books on the subjects and for a newbie it may be hard to tell the difference from good stuff and little hoaxes...
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Postby Brian » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:50 pm

I see you are in France...so I cannot help you with what is genuine and what is not.

Maybe try and find something near you, go along, question the teacher and/or the students and determine if it is right for you.

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Re: Qigong and Vasectomy

Postby TMM » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 pm

I've had a vasectomy. I notice a big difference in the loss of chi when I ejaculate. Then days later I feel a build up of chi. So I don't believe it changes anything in your chi practice.

Donna Eden, an energy medicine practitioner has treated people who have had pain in their hands even though they had no arms. She treated the hand as if it existed and the pain went away. So the energy body still exists despite the alteration of the physical body.

I believe the energy body (where the qi is cultivated) is being cultivated despite any physical changes to the body and that the area around the testicles and genital area is where the qi is being stored within the physical body and that the energy body simply infuses the contents of that area with qi. And so the physical substance is more or less an anchor for the qi as the energy body and the physical body have a connection. So the qi doesn't come from the physical sperm but rather the energy body. The sperm get it from the energy body.

There is an equalization process between the sexual energy of the energy body and the physical sexual fluids. When sexual fluids are lost the energy body has to drain it's reservior into the new non-qi-charged fluids to equalize the amount of qi in the energy body and the physical body. That causes a loss of sexual energy in the energy body. It's like two steps up, one step down, two steps up, one step down, every time you ejaculate. That process slows down your overall ability to raise your qi levels.

So if you want to be sexually active and cultivate qi don't ejaculate when you have sex. You can develop/strengthen the PC muscle to squeeze it hard enough to prevent the fluids from coming out while experiencing the orgasm. You still lose some fluids but not nearly as much if you had a full ejaculation. So two steps up and 0.25 steps down. It's all a matter of how much qi you want to lose with sex.

The testosterone (hormones) produced by the testes is delivered to the body via blood flow to and from the testes and has nothing to do with the path the sperm takes during ejaculation. What triggers testosterone productions is a chemical signal from other glands in the body and brain through the blood stream.

The actual sperm is either going to be in your testicals or out of your body whether they are being produced or not. If you never ejactual while not having had a vascectomy then the same thing is going to happen to the sperm as if you had a vasectomy. So the fact that if one has a vasectomy and that it prevents the sperm from leaving the body during ejactulation has very little negative effect on qigong practice.

The unnatural part that the master mentioned is, I believe, an unnatural occurrence within the mind. Ask yourself this... "Why do I need to ejaculate if I'm not going to have a baby"? Why would you want to lose your energy when you're cultivating and trying to build up your energy? It's always because of an addiction. An addiction causes one to become distracted from the emotional suffering within the mind and that is caused by a belief that does not resonate with truth. All men have degrees of not feeling that they, as a person, is very lovable, accepted, or worthy of love. And most of the time we, as men, feel loved when a woman accepts our sperm. How do you feel when a woman spits as opposed to swallows? When she spits you feel kind of rejected and disappointed and that feeling comes from beliefs that you have about yourself. You don't have to ejaculate to be with your partner, to share energy and be close. So if I was a qigong master I would tell my students that if you have an error of beliefs in the mind and that if you do not correct that error you will manifest an error within the body. The belief is also thought of as an injury and so a vasectomy is really also an injury within the body. I would recommend people experience the feelings associated with not having your addictions met and process those emotions as opposed to finding a way to live in those negative emotions and as they say have your cake and eat it too.
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