Tibet

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Re: Tibet

Postby Dvivid » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:11 am

Self-immolation is not considered suicide in Buddhism, really. An ancient practice, "Abandoning the Body", its an opportunity to jump ahead in reincarnation, using meditation techniques. Zuowang 坐亡 "sitting death; passing away while sitting in meditation", is the ideal manner of death for eminent monks and nuns.They are attempting to reincarnate so they can do more good than they can in their current powerless state. Culturally, it is difficult to relate to. If you don't believe in reincarnation, then its viewed as a negative act, and a disaster.

Few people are probably successful in maintaining deep meditation while on fire (!), one has to guess...the younger monks burning themselves are acting out of emotional frustration. Obviously, the situation is pretty dire.

These self-immolations are a desperate act to try and get attention on the ongoing genocide we are witnessing in Tibet. China has just announced they are stepping up measures so that the Dalai Lamas image and voice will never be seen in Tibet.

"Let’s show the Tibetan people that the world hasn’t forgotten them. China is feeling the heat as 13 governments just called them out on human rights in Tibet. Sign to stand with Tibet, then share this with everyone. When one million have signed, it will be delivered to crucial UN delegations, and make it massive in the media:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stand_with_ ... ab&v=30816

Pressure on China is mounting. In an unprecedentedly strong show of support, Canada, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Japan, New Zealand, Poland, US, UK, Switzerland, Sweden, Iceland and Austria just called on China to protect freedom of assembly, religion and association in Tibet. This request arrives just days after a Spanish court indicted China's former President for genocide in Tibet!

The situation is really dire. More than 120 people have taken their own lives by setting themselves on fire to protest the suffocation of the Chinese occupation and hundreds of thousands of Tibetans have been wiped out. China's ongoing policies systematically suppress the Tibetan language, force people from their homes, and strictly control the Tibetans' movement and religion." - Avaaz
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Tibet

Postby Monsoon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:48 pm

I won't comment on the whole of that post for fear of fanning the flames (as it were). However, I should just point out that you (Dvivid) are promoting a common misinterpretation of reincarnation. I would suggest anyone who wishes to learn more about the concepts of rebirth, anatta and atman should read the relevant Buddhist texts.
peace and harmony

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Re: Tibet

Postby Dvivid » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:11 am

You're going to have to elaborate. I think I understand, having read the texts.

The main point of that post, we should note, was a call to sign a petition to try to help the dire situation there.
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Re: Tibet

Postby Dvivid » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:10 am

Hi Monsoon, Im sorry we disagree on this.

I did not mention at any time an idea of "being reborn as the same conscious entity". That's not how reincarnation works. Buddhism does tell us that awakened beings who choose to delay enlightenment are able to benefit others, beyond normal human capability.

"Fanatics" and "cause celebre" aside, it is immoral to shoot pacifist monks in the head because they wont hold the Chinese flags, or they protest for Tibetan rights during forced re-education parades. That's what's happening. This is a basic human rights issue, not a religious debate or trendy news story, IMO. People are being murdered for attempting to preserve and protect their indigenous culture. I am glad you do not wish to comment further. No need to fan flames on a sensitive topic.

The "follies of history are blindly repeated" when people choose to take no action to affect change for things they believe in.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Tibet

Postby Dvivid » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:19 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Now we know your stand on both topics. In fact, Im motivated to discuss reincarnation more, but in a separate thread.

My goal with this thread is to keep Tibet in our qigong forum readers' minds, as their culture is a source of detailed traditional theory, but also they are striving to bridge the gap to modern Western science.

I would hope some percentage of our qigong peeps have the compassion and empathy to relate to the ongoing issues in Tibet, and participate in helping, if only with spreading awareness and signing petitions.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Tibet

Postby Dvivid » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:03 am

Although, p.s. - Hilariously, China has said that the Dalai Lama's reincarnation is illegal. They want to choose the next DL. So, DL has stated that when he's in his 90s he'll give clear information about where and when he'll reincarnate. That'll be fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-c7o7jz7OU
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Tibet

Postby pilotfish » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:43 am

Comments above (11/4/13 et seqq.) mentioned relevant texts. Interpretations can differ, even with great confidence. In a new thread, it would be good to cite the key texts that drive one's general interpretation, and one's interpretation of the specific statements in the sources. This can clarify the roots of the differences and promote learning, agreement, or agreeing to disagree respectfully (as above).
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