Small Circulation

Discuss Qigong, its ideas, theories and practice. Please stay on topic.

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Re: Small Circulation

Postby joeblast » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:23 pm

Pete, every so often you chime in here and say d*mn near verbatim the same things. We're not here to take Randi's challenge or show everyone how we can wizz eight feet up a wall. The existence question just ceases to be valid when that is all you mention, never quite constructively adding one way or the other, never proving a thing one way or the other, never quite opening your mind past the lid on your own training. Some people say qi doesnt exist...well, sorry for their narrow worldview, perhaps they will encounter more open minded teachers in future lifetimes. Fact of the matter is, your opinion is not going to change another's experiences, especially when one has had rather significant otherwise inexplicable experiences in the past, but you might just help someone stay away from qigong because a person or two feels its questionable. Most of this stuff has been pretty secret up until this last generation or so - so for you to assert that "well, since its 4,000 years old, why havent they proved it yet?" is rather ignorant of history.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby pete5770 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:55 pm

Dvivid wrote:
there ought to be some evidence of it's existance, something tangible, something you can see, touch, feel.


This is a qigong forum. If you want to prove qi and qigong don't exist, please try.

I am merely respecting you by replying and trying to clarify this topic for the benefit of readers looking for answers, not more questions.


For one thing no one can prove something does not exist. It's up to the people that claim "whatever" to prove whether "whatever" works, exists, or has any uses.

Also I'm not really sure who said it but "It's the questions that are important, anyone can find the answers".

If anyone feels threatened by my questions, and there are a few, I would ask you why my disbelief makes YOU feel that way? :? :?
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby joeblast » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:07 pm

Threatened? :lol: It is but an annoyance that derails threads from their topics. What the heck do you expect people to say? My experience doesnt require your belief, but here we are on page two of not being on topic in the least, and here you are again projecting your uncertainties upon others. I think you're on the wong fook hing forum, dude.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby pete5770 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:34 pm

joeblast wrote: My experience doesnt require your belief, .......


That's the right atitude to have but it begs the question of why be so upset about a disbeliever who, according to all indications, doesn't have a clue? :? :?
Everyone seems afraid(for lack of a better word) of my beliefs and disbeliefs. and, to be honest, I'm about the least threatening person I know. It's just that my mind questions everything, without exception, and I'm not afraid to ask about something or say what I think.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby caesar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:44 pm

WORD!

The world is free for you to travel and experience Pete. You live in states, go travel and meet the Boston people for example. That's something I can't do from Europe very easily, I envy you. You're still asking for proof like in the other topics. You have already been given an advice to go and try it yourself, because it's about feeling in the first place. For me or many other on this forum you are no threat, it's actually more like boring to look at your same questions and your same requests for some "practical proof" all the time. You have your own legs and body, go check it out yourself, or then be at least so polite that stop interrupting interesting and helpful posts by asking the questions you've already been answered, and if those questions haven't been satisfying you, accept it and let others continue learning from each other. You could of course also...read the links people paste for you about qi gong and science, for you to have a better stand at arguing, and perhaps a better understanding to what Qi and Qi Gong can mean...you'd perhaps get away from your preconception...oh but wait...those links interest you as much as politics as you said in another post...so well done. I think you must feel great for first questioning something, then rejecting the advice given to you, then rejecting web-links and books of suggestible proof provided for you explaining the matter (because it's boring like politics)...and in the end, just flip the coin upside down and pull the "I'm a threat to you believers" card...

Well done! I'm all threatened.
Don't bother to answer, I know that you will take one or to sentences and make a post about them, perhaps even with a small twist...

Sorry admin(s), this might have been a little aggressive and offensive post, but had to free some aggression from inside me, since I'm so threatened anyway.

Please go on with small circulation. It was a new topic for me since I'm new here and did find it very interesting.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby pete5770 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:59 pm

Claification on my part. I didn't mean to make it sound as if I thought I threatened any particular person. My intent was that I felt that I had threatened a few peoples belief systems. Sorry, that I wasn't a bit clearer on that. :oops:
I'll try once again to keep my mouth shut, but try is about as good as I can promise.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby caesar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:01 pm

Well perhaps try is more than you're been doing 'til now. ;) Good luck on it.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby Dvivid » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:05 pm

Trying is planning to fail. Do or do not.

Yoda - qigong master
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby caesar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:47 pm

Great! Just as the Nike commercial ..."Just do it!"
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby robertov » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:42 pm

Hi, I'm reading the book on ji jin jing and have several questions, in Chapter 6.6.1 discusses Low Circulation - Abdominal Exercises - needed to generate Qi in the Dan Tian? But what are these exercises? Is there explanations and pictures of them? ... this is of great importance as it can not continue if the necessary Qi is generated.

on the lesser circulation also says "is inspired and directed the Qi from nose to tailbone ..." ... then made surrounding the genitals, two 'lines Qi "... arriving at Huiyin, through the anus and coccyx arriving at? so is it? or is the dan tien to huiyin through the body?

I practice zhan zhuang daily but want to start with the program book of yi jin jing qi gong.
thanks for the replies.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby joeblast » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:02 pm

put down that book and pick up something like embryonic breathing. if you dont know what these concepts are then there are more fundamental things you need to work on. you want to find your qi, find stillness, do embryonic breathing and master those fundamentals, then you have solid basis (which in a sense also equates to safety net) to do the more advanced stuff. learn to settle qi before moving it around. settle the body to calm the body's signals, and with those signals lowered, then other signals can be "louder." best done in seated meditation and then it can more thoroughly carry over to standing and moving. when the surface is calm, more able to see what's on the bottom /\ :)
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby yeniseri » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:39 pm

Why small circulation?
why not small circulation?

Just asking the question to myself!
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby joeblast » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:33 am

and then, what are you circulating, does it have all the necessary ingredient 8)
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby RingAndReed » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:45 am

WOUF, what a dynamic thread!
As I read through, it seems there is a basic connection to another post I made "Moving the chi?" in that it's one thing to visualise or mentally picture what is happening, it's another to perceive it.

I posit that different teachers and schools explain differently depending on their target audience with different cultures and experience - I don't mean degrees of achievement, just what a given segment of population has experienced.

So as I see it, this question is as much a matter of asking "does anyone actually feel/perceive the flow described by the technique?" I'm guessing that, like "the Force" in Star Wars", Qi is actively working in everyone alive, but to be able to lead it with the mind..... well I suppose it happens unwittingly, just like the autonomic reflexes require no conscious control. But when we hear/read about these things, I sure want to be able to do things with awareness, just like I can feel water I am swimming in or heavy wind I am walking against.

=> If this makes any sense ro ANY reader/commentator, please reply in the post "Moving the chi?", just to reduce the amount of page scrolling! :P
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby Dvivid » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:24 am

Clearly visualizing the movement of Qi with relaxed concentration is a crucial element of practice, especially at first. We say "the Yi leads the Qi"; your intention leads your energy.

So, with small circulation, you are at first visualizing this orbit, down the front of the torso, and up the back....continually with every breath...and over time, you transition deeper into meditation, from thinking (conscious mind) to feeling (limbic system).
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Small Circulation

Postby robertov » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:30 pm

Friends , I started about 30 days ago to make Buddhist breathing, inspired and take my breath and my mind below the navel , in the center of the body , my mind concentrated there, expired and hold the anus and perineum slightly step ... I explain what I do if I did not realize something 's hard to do everything without a teacher .

I feel accomplished after several days of practice burning zone , never felt vibrations with every breath ... where burning took mind ... it gave me to understand that everything was working , but never thought to be full of QI to start small circulation ...

however ... from one day to another , about 10 days ago was like starting again, no heat or felt more " ENERGY " in the dan tien , there was more heat to difficulty finding the place to bring the mind , is costing much heat in every practical sense , I do it 3 times a day .
The reasons for the " download QI" what may be the accumulated
I do abdominal exercises and stretching ?
sex?
Zhang Zhuang Practice ?
do abdominal breathing sitting in a chair ?

Another question I wanted to do ( I see there is a lot of experience on this forum ) is the indicator which is to start small circulation

thanks for the reply and patience ! :)
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby Dvivid » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:53 pm

Hi,

Im not sure i got everything you said because of the language barrier...but, first:

This qigong is dangerous and should not be practiced without a teacher or detailed understanding. At the same time, I know teachers are hard to find, and the theory is challenging to grasp. Assuming you will keep practicing, I'll try to clarify.

1. If you feel heat, you're doing it wrong. You're either breathing too hard, 'thinking' too hard, or both. It should be gentle. Heat can sometimes happen as you work through a blockage or an area of tension, but you don't want to encourage it or strive for it.

2. Buddhist breathing means: inhale, the abdomen expands, the perenium pushes out (very little).

3. Taoist breathing generates a little more energy. Inhale, the abdomen draws in, lift the perenium (very little).

It is OK to do abdominal breathing in a chair. And OK to stretch before and after.

Zhang Zhuang is good, if you do it correctly, and gradually build up strength.

As far as sex, you'll find other threads on that topic in this forum.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Small Circulation

Postby joeblast » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:30 pm

if you cant find a signal amidst the noise, what are you really working with?
build the potential for potent enough signals through cultivation of fundamentals. until then, dont bother with other methods.
through cultivation of fundamentals, quiet noise at the same time as build potentials.
it'll be easier and it'll want to move when the potentials are sufficient.
beginning with trying to move it was a drawn out facade, that's just my own experience...I dont necessarily want to pimp my method, but moving flow didnt happen well enough the channels were opened up more :mrgreen:
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby robertov » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:47 pm

First thanks for your answers, and I want to tell you also taking the "heat" as an indicator of progress, understanding that the great heat in the dan tian sense that the first 15 days were perhaps a "stage" of the process.
The book says that when mr yang feels much dan tien heat and vibration means you have enough energy to start with small circulation, ie those indicators are not? ... What is your experience david, joe?

It is also important to know when you are doing something right, because the charging process is explained dle dan tien, the mind in the dan tien is concentrated, breathing and practiced daily, there comes a time to start, no mysteries, but while it is charged must be also indications that one does not work well?

a warm hug! thanks
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Re: Small Circulation

Postby joeblast » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:51 pm

Balance, even moreso ;)

The extent of your cultivation you will be able to retain is a function of the depth of stillness you are able to attain. It is important that this is mentioned, because deep stillness is an absolute requirement for more advanced practices that deal with moving energy. Few people really build enough energy potential to hurt themselves, but it can be done, and it is almost always because this fundamental requirement is not met. Some of my teachers will flat out refuse to teach someone if they do not include this as a veritable second half (or more) of a session, especially when more active energetics are involved.

So if you arent able to attain a good depth of stillness at this point, given that you are generating significant amounts of heat, then go easy on the aspects that generate this heat. Don't blow on the coals too much, as it were. If your breath durations arent on the order of at least 30 seconds, then refocus your attention in this direction; drop the flow of air beneath the threshold of turbulence in the air passageways, settle the heartmind well, and build good habit-energy in that direction.

It is the difference between an old house with old electrical wiring, just the two wires, vs new wiring of proper gauge and with the added grounding wire for overflow ;)
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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