Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

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Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:53 pm

As I understand it from received theory . . . the "Water Path" of Qi circulation is up through the Thrusting Vessel. Whereas the "Fire Path" of Qi circulation is up through the Governing Vessel.

My question is about differentiating them.

Could anyone confirm from their own personal experience that the so-called "energy orgasm", terminating in the head, is a characteristic manifestation of the Water Path circulation (?)

Thanks . . .
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby joeblast » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:04 am

There's so much work to be done on the fundamentals before things like this become relevant that by the time you are ready for such things, the questions no longer exist.
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Malcolm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:32 am

joeblast wrote:There's so much work to be done on the fundamentals before things like this become relevant that by the time you are ready for such things, the questions no longer exist.


I see. So you're in a position to judge, sight unseen, how much work someone has done and what might or might not be relevant to them (?)

That's disappointingly condescending of you.

If you don't know the answer to a question . . . or don't wish to share it in a spirit of open goodwill . . . why not just remain silent . . . rather than questioning the question or the questioner (?)
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Monsoon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:51 pm

joeblast has displayed a wealth and depth of knowledge on this forum over time, and a genuine willingness to invest the time to post some very helpful information and ideas. I seriously doubt that he is making a personal attack on you, Malcolm. As a general statement, what joeblast said is IMO absolutely correct.

Perhaps instead of mounting your high horse at the slightest of perceived slights you should preface your follow-up with some explanation of where you are in your own practices. Just to avoid inadvertent misunderstandings in the future, you understand. :)
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Malcolm » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:41 am

Monsoon wrote:As a general statement, what joeblast said is IMO absolutely correct.


I didn't ask a general question. I asked a very specific one.

If you don't know that answer . . . or aren't willing to share it . . . I feel you should just say so.

But I'm a guest here. And if those aren't the rules you play by . . . then you'll have to excuse me.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Monsoon » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:08 am

Gosh :shock:

Okay, we'll play it that way then. joeblast answered your question very specifically.

joeblast:
There's so much work to be done on the fundamentals before things like this become relevant that by the time you are ready for such things, the questions no longer exist.


malcolm:
If you don't know that answer . . . or aren't willing to share it . . . I feel you should just say so.


I think jb did actually just say so.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby joeblast » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:55 am

Malcom, I certainly meant no disrespect. But let's be honest here, the way in which one asks questions does tend to convey a measure of one's experience. When certain things don't make sense about the way one asks a question or there's too much focus on energy orgasms and such, that tells me you arent very well versed in the fundamentals of practices that lead to these things emerging. There is no disrespect in that, it is just a plain observation.

But if you really want to know it can be both, although like I said this is an outflow from proper diligent practice of fundamentals, attaining deep stillness, and some sexual conservation helps with it also (which is best integrated by the deep stillness.)
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Malcolm » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:41 pm

joeblast wrote:. . .you arent very well versed in the fundamentals of practices that lead to these things emerging. There is no disrespect in that, it is just a plain observation."


You just can't quit . . . can you (?)

The demonstrable fact of the matter is . . . that you know nothing about me, my experience, or my practise. THAT . . . and ONLY that . . . is "just a plain observation".

Let me offer you something . . . that you should have already learned long ago.

If there is ANY chance AT ALL . . . that someone has a lot of (maybe even more?) experience than you do (perhaps in a parallel tradition that you know nothing about?) . . . then you should feel under some near-absolute obligation to give him the benefit of the doubt about it.

It doesn't obligate you to assume that he DOES have that experience (for example, when sharing problematic information) . . . but it does obligate you to otherwise NOT assume that he does NOT.

I challenge you to verify this universal principle with ANY senior teacher -- perhaps your own.

I certainly give YOU the benefit of the doubt.

That all being said . . . thank you for your answer to my question. I was pretty sure of it already . . . but confirmation is helpful and encouraging to me as I translate a whole variety of such experiences from one tradition to another.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Monsoon » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:07 pm

Of course /smacks forehead/ I had forgotten that it is always 100% the other person's error.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby joeblast » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:42 am

Drop the ego issues, bro, you dont need to protect it *that* much. Of course I dont know you from jack smack on the street, so dont take offense when your presentation says something and another reflects back something you dont like. Had you some accomplishment you wouldnt be lashing out at the thought of somebody "saying you're less than what you feel you are" and would have laughed, having already found a decent measure of equanimity.

Unreal how people react to another speaking plainly.
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Water Path and Fire Path in Qi circulation . . .

Postby Dvivid » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:07 pm

Whoa whoa...

Let's get back to the original post; very good question.

It takes very abundant energy (Qi) to experience the kundalini experience you are inquiring about. We modern practitioners rarely have the lifestyle/conditions necessary for this internal cultivation.

But, nonetheless: the water path specifically means circulating energy within the spine. the fire path refers to circulating energy in the tendons/tissue up the back outside of the spine.

To differentiate between the two, it is required to lead the Qi to two different targets. To feel Qi in the spine/chong mai, your attention must be held in the center of the head. To feel Qi in the governing vessel, the attention must be help on a point somewhere up the back, most usually the top of the head (bai hui) or the center of the forehead (third eye).

I hope this somewhat vague answer is helpful.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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