Is Boztepe unbeatable..?

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Is Boztepe unbeatable..?

Postby thecrowrains » Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:37 pm

Hello group,

I've been receiving excellent, thoughtful replies from many here on the "Shaolin" topic, but I thought I'd pose another question in this section, on sparring/fighting.
I've been researching about Wing Chun, and it's various cousins, such as Ving Tsun/Chun, Tzun, Tsjun, etc, etc. Many names come up in my research, one of them being Boztepe.

I've come accross numerous replies in emails and other martial art forums, and all say that Boztepe, of EBMAS Wing Tzun is unbeatable in a fight. Is he unbeatable?
Even the Gracies of South America backed down from initiating an official challenge to Boztepe, after he accepted all of their challenges, but only on the premise that they do the fight outside of the octagon cage and out on the street. The Gracies declined and officially withdrew their challenge after that! (obviously showing a fear of Boztepe outside of the octagon cage).
Some say that he would have eliminated Bruce Lee in a full contact fight, given his further training in Wing Tzun, to Lee's minimal 4 years with Yip Man.
Boztepe was witnessed sending a 6' 5'' - 250 pound man a foot off the ground and four feet backwards after slamming him with "Bruce Lee's 1-inch Punch" during one of his seminars! He replied beforehand to the student asking if he can do that punch, that he could with apparent ease.

I realize speculation is useless, but if anyone is interested in throwing in their two cents on this topic, feel free.

~signing out. peace
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Postby scramasax57 » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:44 pm

first off, i hope you realize that the different spellings of wing chun are only that: different spellings. they're the same art.


no one is unbeatable...some people are just very hard. i'm not surprised the gracies backed down; they are sport fighters. i don't think that they are afraid of being beat so much as being branded street brawlers. it seems kind of ridiculous to me; he really challenged them to just a straight up street fight? in my experience, street fight means anything goes. rocks, bringing in your friends, whatever. that sounds even stupider to me than the gracies' arrogant challenge for anyone to beat them at their own game. i don't understand why either side would feel the need to fight; they are both obviously incredibly talented fighters. i guess its an ego thing, but to me it seems ridiculous to want to know that not only can you destroy 99% of the people out there, but that last 1% too. personally i think all these guys need to deflate their egos and concentrate more on the moral side to being a fighter; they've definitely already got the physical side down.

not that they care what i think, but i thought i'd put it out there.
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Postby Walter Wong » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:17 am

I've met someone who said he's met Boztepe. He said that the man is crazy. If it goes to the ground he pummels the hell out of you. That he has no regard for your safety if you spar with him even in practice.

So it sounds like if he did fight a Gracie on the street no rules, Boztepe will use the rocks or sidewalk curb and whatever near by and try to seriously almost kill you. It seems he has a point to prove. My impression is that he maybe an angry guy inside and he'll do whatever it takes to win. Hence probably why the Gracies turned down the chance. They probably were choosing their fight wisely. Good warriors know how to choose their fights. It is not practical to just fight anyone. Fight if you know you can win.

Anyways, I'd be interested in seeing Boztepe fight against Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic.

Boztepe is someone I imagine that will bite you and smash a rock on your head if you were winning in barehand sparring. Nevermind a real fight.

This thing bout Boztepe beating Bruce Lee, well, perhaps his skills may have surpassed Bruce's cause Bruce Lee only reached a certain level by the time he died. Had Bruce still be alive today, Bruce's skill would've been much higher as well cause Bruce trains like a mad man and I think Bruce as well is a determined guy that refuses to lose a fight. I get the impression that Bruce would've been the smarter fighter and I would speculate Bruce would beat Mr. Boztepe. But that's just my speculation so it probably doesn't matter.
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Postby thecrowrains » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:31 pm

Walter Wong & "Scramasax57",

your two cents added to the question is well thought out.

"Scramasax57" - this is just second hand paraphrasing, but what I read in another martial arts forum is that the Gracies initiated the official challenge to Boztepe FIRST. Boztepe agreed immediately ONLY on the grounds that there be no octagon-cage. That is when the Gracies backed out. Good point, the egos out there need to be deflated. Focusing on the morality of a fighter/martial artist is more important, for longevity's sake.

Walter Wong - Agreed, from what I've heard and read, Boztepe is a crazy man even in seminars he is teaching at. That is what happened to this 6'5''- 250 pound man at Boztepe's seminar. The poor guy paid money to attend and learn from him, and when a student asked if Boztepe could do the 'Bruce Lee 1-inch punch', that is when he told this guy to "touch hands with him", essentially using him as a punching bag.
Sounds crazy.

But then again I wasn't there eye-witnessing this event, so it is all hearsay.

Good point Walter Wong about Bruce Lee's intellect! Lee was a scholar with the martial arts in every sense of the word. Lee may have developed far beyond his JKD if he were alive today.

peace,
Eric
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Postby TonyM. » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:47 am

I heard bostepe was the one that came up with the excuses and cancelled. No one is unbeatable.
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Postby thecrowrains » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:25 pm

Tony M.,

Interesting, yours is the first post I've read, including other Online Martial forums, that has not supported Boztepe's "invincibility".
As for Boztepe and his abilities, it has been said that he is EXTREMELY hard to beat in a one-on-one fight. They (on other forums/surveys) have said his power is matched only by his technique in Wing Tsun , with technique exhibiting sheer speed and fearlessness.

It's been said he has numerous knife scars and a bullet scar to boot!

What made you think Boztepe backed out from the Gracies?

~out, peace.
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Postby zipwolf » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:30 pm

there is a massive article by the "hates everyone" style writer on boztepe. suprisingly, its against him.

Mainly because apparently his bigges claim to fame was defeating william cheung, who when they fought, was an old man.
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Postby TonyM. » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:45 pm

I saw the film. It was pathetic.
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Postby zipwolf » Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:52 pm

what film tony?
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Postby adamfuray » Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:38 pm

i wouldn't refer to William Cheung as old...and his fighting ability is razor sharp. if this boztepe guy bested W.C. in any medium of martial combat, he's got some serious skill. W.C. is one of the fastest, most accurate and powerful examples of Wing Chun on the planet.
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Postby zipwolf » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:31 am

I was merely regurgitating what bullshido said. I have absolutely NO respect for bullshido, as they are so obsessed with "Exposing lies" That they expose absolutely everything they possibly can as a lie, even if its not lying.

They are a lot like my dad, who is so scared of "quacks" That he instantly dismisses all serious research into medicine etc. as quackery. He doesnt trust anything to do with nutrition (so he eats fatty fried food... clever guy) or anything to do with modern medicinal treatments.

Bullshido are the martial arts versions, describing WC as an old man (who obviously because of this cant fight), and all iron training as lies, and most martial arts other then choice few as rubbish.
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Postby thecrowrains » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:40 pm

...in reading the replies to the question I posted, "Is Boztepe unbeatable?",
I begin to see that ultimately, it really doesn't matter, if he is or isn't.

Realistically, no one is unbeatable, according to life, according to Taoist philosophy. There is always someone out there at any given time faster, better.

I wonder why politics exist in the martial arts, knowing full well that it is intrinsically tied to the ego, which is inherently tied to expectations and one's effort to improve. In this case, the martial arts. For some reason, Boztepe fought with Cheung, obviously for reasons only he and Cheung know, or for that matter, ALL those involved in that political Wing Chun cycle: Leung Ting, Cheung, Boztepe, etc, etc.

thankfully it's all OLD news. I'm sure the art will survive far beyond the political shenanigans of two separate schools of thought.

peace
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Postby zipwolf » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:07 pm

BTW, Emin backed down on the Gracie challenge. Simply because he didnt actually challenege them, his organisation forwarded his name when the Gracies were issuing open challenges.
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Postby thecrowrains » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:28 pm

Zipwulf,
interesting angle, that the Gracies were issuing the open challenge. This (if true) shows their confidence and ability to throw out a blanket challenge to any takers.

I wonder why Boztepe's organization entered his name, since it is afterall, "HIS" organization.

LOL....the political fires get stoked more and more on this topic. Either way, this is all hearsay anyways, unless of course it's being spoken by the horse's mouth sotospeak.

I do notice, off topic, that Wing Chun doesn't seem to be well represented in the sport tournaments, such as K1, UFC, Pride, etc. It seems that 90% of all the contestants are massive behemoths, pumped up on steroids, brandishing grappling skills only, as they all seem to end in a choke or arm-cracking arm lock.

It would be good to witness other styles for a change, except for the K1 kickboxers.

peace
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Postby zipwolf » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:00 pm

not forgetting all the grapplers are the same grappling style. GAH GAH! But regardless, i'll shut up about that. Its starting to change slightly.

It was not Emin's organisation back then. It was an international wing chun organisation that he was a part of, it was the forwarding of his name to the Gracies that made him form his own .
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Postby Walter Wong » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:46 pm

Image
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Postby Inga » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:24 pm

walter, i'm ready to be unstoppable! does the ymaa shop stock catwoman suits? i fancy trying some of these moves but it would have to look right.
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Postby scramasax57 » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:41 pm

hey, that's pretty much how animal kung fu got started.

cats have amazing kung fu. if i could jump as high as them, i wouldn't bother fighting anyone. i'd just keep jumping over them.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:07 am

As for the comment on Bruce, I don't think so. Not because Bruce was a martial art "God" but because of his calmness of mind yet ability to explosively and aggresively attack/counter, I wouldn't bet on it. Bruce truly did have a mastery over his body, even though he broke free from the structure of WC, he still applied internal and Taoist to his practice, no matter what he did. If I was Bruce, and I felt someone with someone anger trying to personally challenge or invade my space, I would make it my mission to personally teach him a lesson.

I've had that happened in real life, just people with anger and such disrespect that it makes me want to teach them a serious lesson. And if it gets to that point, I feel that I will.From what I've heard, this guy does not strike a good chord with me.

When I saw the clip of WC getting beat on the ground, I felt really bad. Although it is WC's fault, I think WC was expecting a Wing Chung comparison (mine is better than yours) match, and was instead pummeled (and an old man at that). That proves that even during challenges, you should never expect "anything" and therefore ready for anything.
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Postby Eddard Stark » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:36 pm

Boztepe is just a publicity hog. He was more than welcome at any time to accept the "Gracie Challenge" and go to their school to fight them (and collect $5k if winning). He decided to post a public challenge in a popular MA mag.

The Gracies responded that he could come on down to their school like everybody else. Boztepe said it gave them too much advantage. Rorion then set up a fight in a LA Police training facility. Boztepe replied again that since Rorion has taught there, it gives them too much advatage... OK... They offer a cage/ring fight. Boztepe says that having ropes or a cage will prevent him from escaping from take down attempts (although other much beatable fighters and Gracie-defeaters seem to have no problem with this). After going back and forth a while, it became apparent Boztepe wasn't really interested in a fight; just publicity.

It obviously worked since people are still talking about it.
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