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Josh Young wrote:Pete, you are saying you could take a sport fighting system and use it against a martial system?
Josh Young wrote:Pete, you are saying you could take a sport fighting system and use it against a martial system?
This isn't an issue of ego at all.
You can speculate all you want, but what real life experience do you have on this subject?
I'm thinking that Mike Tyson was a "sport fighter".
caesar wrote:I'm thinking that Mike Tyson was a "sport fighter".
Of course sports like boxing increases your chances in a fight. But training boxing in a ring won't give you a slightest idea about defending yourself against a knife.
Brian wrote:
Don't forget....'sports' fighting systems have their roots in actual combat systems....western fencing stems from the real use of rapiers, epees, etc., Kendo ('the way of the sword) is rooted in Kenjutsu ('the method/technique of the sword') and Iaido ('the art of drawing the sword') is rooted in Iaijutsu. Because of this, Fencing and Kendo still retain some martial content (albeit watered down) and therefore could plausibly be used to defend oneself.
caesar wrote: How do you make the assumption that I think that a martial art would protect you from everything? That's just silly. Training self defense against a knive: increases your chances. Train a lot: increase your chances a lot.
But it seems you haven't really been to a martial art where you actually practice against someone with a knife.
About a boxer learning against knife...no way! This is really hard to explain if you've had no experience with knives or other weapons. But a knife turns the situation to totally different. You can't rely on your basic blocking and hitting reflexes. If you train against a knife, you must have a feeling all the time of how dangerous only one small slice is. You must also train how to attack with a knife to be able to understand the knife man's logic. You should know the tricks a person with a knife would possibly use etc etc.
I don't know if what I said about "should also learn how to attack with a knife" goes well with the principles of tai chi since I'm new to it. It's from my experience from other martial arts and I think it's pretty universally applicable anyway.
Josh Young wrote:Brian wrote:
Don't forget....'sports' fighting systems have their roots in actual combat systems....western fencing stems from the real use of rapiers, epees, etc., Kendo ('the way of the sword) is rooted in Kenjutsu ('the method/technique of the sword') and Iaido ('the art of drawing the sword') is rooted in Iaijutsu. Because of this, Fencing and Kendo still retain some martial content (albeit watered down) and therefore could plausibly be used to defend oneself.
Being able to shoot a target with a match pistol does equate to tactical gun training.
Against a serious martial artist of high caliber Mike Tyson would not stand a chance, despite being a good boxer.
Why are you here, just to argue?
Josh Young wrote:Against a serious martial artist of high caliber Mike Tyson would not stand a chance, despite being a good boxer.
wpgtaiji wrote:Josh Young wrote:Against a serious martial artist of high caliber Mike Tyson would not stand a chance, despite being a good boxer.
What? A "martial artist o fhigh caliber".. what is your definition? Mike is (not was, IS) a FIGHTER, with a capital F! The dude bit someone's ear! The dude knows not, nor cares much for rules.
I know one would want to believe that studying a MARTIAL ART, automatically makes them a fighter, but it doesnt. It trains them in certain attributes of a fighter (timing, distance), but does NOT make that person a fighter.
Self defence is NOT fighting either. Nor does being a martial artist mean that you can succeed in self defence.
Fighting is a totally different animal. Literally no rules. No decency. Literally, whatever is needed is allowed. This is very hard for martial artists to accept as we have a certain training. Sports also have certain training. To compare martial artist to sport and say one is superior is lunacy! Under which rules? Under who's "no rules"? LOL
If a sport player could "let go" of the rules (like Mike has shown he is capable of), then you have a very dangerous person. To say otherwise is simply putting ANOTHER set of rules on top. Mike showed folks that he LITERALLY had no rules (dude BIT someone's ear! Costing him LITERALLY millions of dollars..).
There is more to this, of course, but let us grab some perspective! We have people saying that they can beat someone with a stick or sword or knife with their bare hands, and others saying that as long as they have "these rules or those rules"... grow up, all of us!
Josh Young wrote:Tyson is a boxer, he never fought in something like K1 and I doubt he could.
He simply does not have the training for it.
I am not a high caliber martial artist, nor do I lack skill.
I am rather familiar with fighting, I have not been in one for several years now but have fought a lot more than the average person and know several street fighters.
It is true there are no rules in a real fight, but they vary too, no two fights I have been in ever went the same, and rarely did fights I saw.
I know a rather good boxer, golden gloves and quite skilled. He fights on the street often actually, he has a very short temper. Like most boxers he cannot defend against kicks to the knees and other moves like that.
Actually the WTBA system is rather ferocious and teaches quite a few moves that work against boxers. I would bet money that a high level WTBA player could do rather well against a boxer with the same amount of training.
pete5770 wrote:If boxing is so useless why do most mixed martial arts bouts seem to be filled with it?
Josh Young wrote:pete5770 wrote:If boxing is so useless why do most mixed martial arts bouts seem to be filled with it?
Mixed martial arts bouts are not boxing bouts, .......
It is funny you have more faith in boxing than you do taiji!
Josh Young wrote:Boxing isn't throwing punches, it is a sport with a lot to it.
To conflate striking with the fists with boxing as you do is a curious thing.
pete5770 wrote:How does one compete in a boxing match without "throwing punches"?
What is the proper way to describe "striking with the fists" if not boxing?
Josh Young wrote:pete5770 wrote:How does one compete in a boxing match without "throwing punches"?
Nobody said that someone can compete in boxing without punching, so this is a ridiculous question.What is the proper way to describe "striking with the fists" if not boxing?
It is called punching.
Punch is a verb meaning to strike with fists and a noun meaning a strike with a fist.
Punching does not a boxer make, a lot of martial arts have punches Pete, that doesn't mean they are boxing.
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