Kendo vs. Fencing video.

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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby Josh Young » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:13 pm

Punching is not boxing, boxing is not punching.

It is pretty simple.

Ask a boxer, i did.

If you ever learn to ask the right questions you might learn that there is punching in boxing, but that doesn't mean there is boxing in punching.
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby Brian » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:21 pm

Josh Young wrote:Punching is not boxing, boxing is not punching.

It is pretty simple.

Ask a boxer, i did.

If you ever learn to ask the right questions you might learn that there is punching in boxing, but that doesn't mean there is boxing in punching.


‘Boxing’ as we know it is defined by the fact that the contestants use ONLY the fists (ie, closed hands) for striking/punching.

The first documented account of a bare-knuckle fight in England appeared in 1681 in the London Protestant Mercury, and the first English bare-knuckle champion was James Figg in 1719.
This is also the time when the word "boxing" first came to be used. It should be noted, that this earliest form of modern boxing was very different. Contests in Mr. Figg's time, in addition to fistfighting, also contained fencing and cudgeling.

Fist fighting depicted in Sumerian relief carvings from the 3rd millennium BC, while an ancient Egyptian relief from the 2nd millennium BC depicts both fist-fighters and spectators.Both depictions show bare-fisted contests. Other depictions can be seen in Assyrian, Babylonian and Hittite art. The earliest evidence for fist fighting with any kind of gloves can be found on Minoan Crete (c. 1500–900 BC).

So if two people fight punching with the fists only, then you can, technically, say they are boxing.
If any other part of the body is used (elbow, knee, foot, open hand, etc) then it is something other than boxing.
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby pete5770 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:53 pm

Josh Young wrote:If you ever learn to ask the right questions .......


You have a lot to learn in this life. There are NO wrong questions.
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby pete5770 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:56 pm

Brian wrote:
Josh Young wrote:Punching is not boxing, boxing is not punching.

It is pretty simple.

Ask a boxer, i did.

If you ever learn to ask the right questions you might learn that there is punching in boxing, but that doesn't mean there is boxing in punching.


‘Boxing’ as we know it is defined by the fact that the contestants use ONLY the fists (ie, closed hands) for striking/punching.

The first documented account of a bare-knuckle fight in England appeared in 1681 in the London Protestant Mercury, and the first English bare-knuckle champion was James Figg in 1719.
This is also the time when the word "boxing" first came to be used. It should be noted, that this earliest form of modern boxing was very different. Contests in Mr. Figg's time, in addition to fistfighting, also contained fencing and cudgeling.

Fist fighting depicted in Sumerian relief carvings from the 3rd millennium BC, while an ancient Egyptian relief from the 2nd millennium BC depicts both fist-fighters and spectators.Both depictions show bare-fisted contests. Other depictions can be seen in Assyrian, Babylonian and Hittite art. The earliest evidence for fist fighting with any kind of gloves can be found on Minoan Crete (c. 1500–900 BC).

So if two people fight punching with the fists only, then you can, technically, say they are boxing.
If any other part of the body is used (elbow, knee, foot, open hand, etc) then it is something other than boxing.


In a previous post I mentioned something about going off the deep end. You had better stop because you're headed out to sea. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby Josh Young » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:13 pm

It is silly to conflat boxing with punching even though boxing uses punching.

If you kick twice and punch once it is silly to call it boxing just because of the punch.
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby pete5770 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:51 am

Josh Young wrote:It is silly to conflat boxing with punching even though boxing uses punching.

If you kick twice and punch once it is silly to call it boxing just because of the punch.


What do people call it when someone hits someone else with their fist? Hint: a pun....
Do boxers hit other people with their fists?
Therefore is it safe to say that a boxer might "punch" you?
Boxers use the heavy bag to help them improve and fine tune their what? Hint: punching pow....

How many MMA fights have been won because of kicking?
How many MMA fights have been won because someone punched the other guy in the head hard enough to knock him out?
Can you compare these figures?
What are the results?
Why do MMA fighters seem to be "head hunters" above all?
Is it because punching to the head is very, very effective?
Does jabbing(a form of punching) help keep the opponent away from you?
Is that a good strategy? This, keeping them away?
How many MMA fights have you seen in which a kick to the legs has taken another man off his feet?
How many MMA fights have you seen in which a fighter takes another off his feet by a "punch" to the head?
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby Josh Young » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:47 am

Boxing uses punching but not all punching is boxing.

It is so simply any 10 year old can understand it.

I found some stats on UFC fights.

in 2009 there were 215 events
this includes 20 knockouts via punch/elbow but there were 39 submissions from choke holds.

in 2010 there were 253 events
including 15 punch/elbow knockouts, but there were 41 submissions from choke holds.

MMA isn't boxing, punching is not the same thing as boxing, and punching does not dominate MMA victories by any means, submissions via choke holds do.
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby pete5770 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:40 pm

Josh Young wrote:

It is so simply any 10 year old can understand it.



I'm guessing that's why you understand it and I don't?

In any case no one is really interested in MMA stats, so get your butt off that chair and away from that computer screen. I want to see a hour and a half of Yang long form, before dark, out of you. Should be at least 3 times. It'll do ya a h*ll of a lot more good than tracking down stupid requests by me.
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby wpgtaiji » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:16 pm

You guys are missing the whole point of what I put. And yes Josh, WTBA people, at higher levels than I, do NOT worry about what a person does to them. Erle taught that way and that is what is passed on. My mentor actually did a demo (he was literally bullied into doing it on a "death bed" request.. yes, the man did die :( ) where a Krav Maga dude in the audience had a request to see if the demoed "technique" worked with such and such. So, he was invited on stage in front of the hunderds or a thousand (i wasnt there) of people in attendance to find out. On stage, the krav guy was told to do "whatever you want". Shock and "what? no one does that". "Do whatever you want. it doesnt matter." and as the attack came out, the krav guy was on his bottom and apologizing for being rude. That is how Erle taught.

Now, that has NO BEARING what so ever on the question, nor the comment i posted. Mike Tyson is a FIGHTER! The dude is hooked up to fight. That is why he did what he did in boxing. TO deny that, or to put him down, or boxing down, for that matter, because it is sport, shows your ignorance of what true skills are (anyone, I am not singling Josh out here because he got caught up in some strange boxing debate.. which, in itself is assinine).

A boxer has a skill set (as do fencers, wrestlers, karateka, tae kwon do, krav maga, and any other sport artist (including 99% of tai chi people)) that can be taken over to fighting and self defence. Not a ONE of these disciplines, in and of themselves are fighting NOR self defence systems. Yes, you read that right. I have spent 30 years working on the roots of these things, and they arent. Not a one. Fighting and self defence are totally different than martial arts sparring or sport fighting. I know, being martial artists, we want to think we are something special, but that is simply ego. We arent.

There is a world of difference between a martial art and what self defence is, and 95%+ of people will never understand this (as many of you are now calling me insane). I thought the same thing for a long time. It isnt easy to accept. That doesnt make it less true (and it isnt MY idea, btw). I asked my teacher about me starting "self defence" classes, and he actually said "what a f*(King waste of time that would be!" Teaching someone with no training, a bunch of techniques is ONLY a money grab for the teacher. The students, except for the "dont be where danger is" stuff, will never be able to use any of what they learn. How can they?

Enough of this nonsense about what is boxing and what isnt! Why dont we argue about real stuff... oh sorry. Forgot where i was! Only YMAA stuff... so no real stuff :P
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Re: Kendo vs. Fencing video.

Postby Josh Young » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:28 pm

wpgtaiji wrote:oh sorry. Forgot where i was! Only YMAA stuff... so no real stuff :P

I would ban you and Pete from this site in a heartbeat for all of your insulting and outrageous comments.
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