Dying Systems

Discuss shaolin longfist, white crane or other styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: Dvivid, Inga, nyang

Dying Systems

Postby MethodMike » Thu May 08, 2008 5:56 am

Hey everybody,

I'm a newbie, so you may have covered this one. Could an advanced practictioner or group of practictioners "resurrect" a dead or dying system? I assume they would start with the "DNA" like theory, keywords, training methods, etc..., but would it be considered "traditional" or "modern"? Would it be necessary? Whatcha' think???
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby Dvivid » Thu May 08, 2008 8:13 am

Probably...It would be best to find any and all written work on the style and any surviving practitioner of the style.

Search for all the components of the style: punches, kicks, chin na, and wrestling techniques, as well as the body conditioning techniques, fundamental training, and meditation/qigong pertaining to the style so the system can be as complete as possible.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby MethodMike » Thu May 08, 2008 8:26 am

Thanks Dvivid,

Do you think YMAA's Retreat Center will serve as a "mecca" for that kind of research as time goes on?
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby yat_chum » Thu May 08, 2008 11:21 am

Funny, I have thinking about the same subject recently.

What style are you thinking about resurrecting?

Is there such a thing as a traditional style?

Food for thought
The origins of Liuhebafa (also called Water Boxing) can be traced back to the Daoist sage Chen Tuan (c. 871-989 A.D.). Chen is a mystical figure whose advice and perspective was sought by ancient Chinese Emperors.

Liuhebafa was the last of the internal methods to be taught outside China. Even inside China, Liuhebafa had an almost mythic quality. Among the groups of inner circle students, Liuhebafa was graduate study in the internal arts.

Liuhebafa’s Five Character Secrets (of Li Dong Feng) are the original precepts of this rare internal martial art known as Huayue Xinyi Liuhebafaquan. Li Dong Feng discovered aged manuscripts of Chen Tuan, during an expedition to Chen’s ancient mountain home. Realizing the importance of what he had found, Li remained on Mount Hua until he mastered the material in the manuscripts.

Li returned to his home and then recorded all he had learned on Mount Hua in one hundred and thirty-four verses now known as The Five Character Secrets of Li Dong Feng. This is the only existing treatise on the original principles of Liuhebafa.

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing/books/in ... er_secrets
yijing zhigang

use stillness to overcome movement
yat_chum
Forum God
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:18 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby MethodMike » Thu May 08, 2008 12:19 pm

Good point about the term "traditional". My best friend and I have been discussing that point for years. Although it's still out there, I have been looking closer at snake techniques. Based on what I have read, many of the snake's techniques were absorbed into other systems as Chinese martial arts evolved. Imagine complete animal systems as comprehensive as the White Crane program at YMAA. I get chills thinking about it :D
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby yat_chum » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:35 am

This discussion was on my mind last night while I was lying in bed. (Sad I know)

Was there ever a complete Snake boxing system?

It is hard enough to learn from video and books.
I'm not sure if a system can be build just from its DNA alone.


more food for thought
Tiririka
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s9CKqwkDdqU
yijing zhigang

use stillness to overcome movement
yat_chum
Forum God
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:18 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Dvivid » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:21 am

Hi. Yes, I think it is safe to guess that there WAS at some time a complete snake system.

A "traditional" or "complete" system is a style that has instructs punching, kicking, wrestling, and chin na, along with the usual fundamental training, sequences, qigong, and weapons.

Few students truly "master" a style and pass on the complete system...that's why teachers like Master Yang are exceedingly rare, and is the main motivation behind the Retreat Center project.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby MethodMike » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:55 pm

After reading the section in THE ROOT OF CHINESE QIGONG where Dr. Yang talks about "root", I believe that with enough intelligent study and consistent practice it could be done....eventually. I imagine that it would require a high level of focus and a commitment to snake ONLY training at some point to avoid neuromuscular confusion.
If you look at it from the perspective of a complete system being like a body, what do you think the snake's "backbone" or skeleton would be? :)
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby Dvivid » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:39 am

whoa...we need a snake expert practitioner to answer that.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby MethodMike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:53 pm

Of course Dvivid,

Were talking in theoreticals and speculation, to clear up any misunderstanding. I believe that's how intelligent conversations are started. If there's expert out there that would like to share, I say enlighten us. If not, they are welcome to sit on the sideline and judge...as MOST "experts" do :D
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby Asmo » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:25 am

You would probably get a good start to look at systems who still have snake in their style, such as Hung Gar.
Asmo
Forum User
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:39 am

Postby MethodMike » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:05 pm

Yeah, that's something I was wondering about. Hung Gar's pretty rich in 5 animal theory. Thanks to everyone for your comments. 8)
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Snake style

Postby jfraser » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:12 pm

All I know is that it exists as a seperate system in South China. Many years agi, I used to know and spar with a Chinese fellow student at San Diego State, that practiced this as a seperate style, and the most frequent targets he told me about and demonstrated were the groin and eyes.

James
jfraser
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:15 am
Location: Maryland,USA

Postby yat_chum » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:57 am

Helen Liang - Snake Fist (Emei Style)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrbbzGGnVI
yijing zhigang

use stillness to overcome movement
yat_chum
Forum God
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:18 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Yatish Parmar » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:06 am

Is that Master Liang Shou-You's daughter?
Yatish
Yatish Parmar
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:30 am
Location: London

Postby Dvivid » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:41 am

Yes. She is an amazing martial artist, who recently survived cancer with Qigong.


http://shouyuliang.com/index.php/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=55
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby yat_chum » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:44 am

Helen Liang’s Triumph over Tragedy, Battling Lymphoma with Qigong, Tai Chi and Chinese Medicine
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazin ... rticle=353

Sorry MethodMike, for sending this topic off on a tangent. :oops:

How is your research going?
yijing zhigang

use stillness to overcome movement
yat_chum
Forum God
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:18 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby MethodMike » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:12 pm

Not really off topic at all. :D I think Helen Liang is great as well. I've considered exploring the Emei system that she teaches. I've also recently bought THE ESSENCE OF SHAOLIN WHITE CRANE. There's information concerning the root of snake practice as well as hard and soft qigong theory and much more.
I originally started the thread with snake after listening to the podcast that Matt Briggs did with Dr. Yang about the retreat center. He has been working tirelessly to further the advancement of the traditional arts and secure their place in our future. He has found his "voice". I, myself, am an infant in my development as a practitioner, still, I look ahead and ponder on what I will contribute after 30+ years of training.
What kind of REAL depth will I have aquired at that point? What do I believe to be of great benefit to present and future societies? Dr. Stephen R. Covey refers to finding your "voice" or your personal belief and contribution in a given situation in his book THE 8th HABIT. What will MY "voice" be after all has been said and done? Anybody else been feeling like that?

"Find your voice and inspire others to find theirs..."
-Stephen Covey-
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby yat_chum » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:25 pm

Hi MethodMike, how is your research going?
yijing zhigang

use stillness to overcome movement
yat_chum
Forum God
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:18 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby MethodMike » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:55 am

Hey Yat_Chum,

It's been good in spite of the recent hurricane that knocked out power all over Houston. What amazed me was that through the hardships of no power, water, and supply shortages the answer revealed itself. I'll be back to explain when I have access again. Talk to you soon!!!
MINDBODY FITNESS

One Body...One Mind...Infinite Possibilties
MethodMike
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Next

Return to Shaolin Gong Fu / Kung Fu

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron
©2013 YMAA | About YMAA | Privacy Policy |Terms of Use | Permissions | Contact Us