wpgtaiji wrote:Question: was Yang Lu Chan, founder of yang style, instructor of the emporer's family? (hint:yang's nickname was Yang the Invincible)
wpgtaiji wrote:How did he get to that position?
We use what Luchan called the art (hint: read the paragraph again, slowly), which is more correctly called "loose boxing" (no, we do not translate taiji, we use the correct word).
wpgtaiji wrote: Taiji, or the grand ultimate
wpgtaiji wrote:It is amazing how close you read. That is excellent! You can read every word and understand every word, and attribute a translation to me, which is amazing, since i dont translate! Grand ultimate is DECADES old, accurate or not, it isnt mine, but thanks for the compliment to think I translate!
But remember, you must research on your own in great detail in order to achieve a deeper understanding of the art. Thus it is said: "You don't ever want to give up your throat; question every talented person in heaven and earth. If [you are] asked: how can one attain this great achievement, [the answer is] outside and inside, fine and coarse, nothing must not be touched upon."
Josh Young wrote: If one examines the forms coming from his teachings previous to this creation the content is very similar with key distinctions, for example there are jumping kicks and some very fast motions in the original style that are missing from the public version. Also one can examine the styles coming from his son Ban-hou (wu-tunan) and note that the content is very similar to the public form but with some key distinctions that are remarkably like the Wu material.
Josh Young wrote:Golden rooster stands on one leg has a double jump kick in the older forms. That can be seen in some of the Wu form material.
Josh Young wrote:some of the point striking might work, a lot of it is hearsay and questionable
the record of taiji being used in fighting tournaments includes a death,
This man won an all fighting tournament in China in 1929, one of his opponents died and he felt very bad and retired from fighting to practice Taoism. The move that killed was Lu, or rollback, it was executed against the temple/side of head, of his opponent. not exactly a point strike
In the line i was taught they have a special handweapon that is said to be very good for striking the throat, it is taught that crushing the throat/windpipe is deadly, i believe this but do not count this as point striking
if one hits the heart at the right moment, it can cause cardiac arrest, this is not matter of where to hit, but a matter of timing, the odds are against it, but it is possible that a strike to the sternum and chest can prove fatal this way
some potential does exist for delayed death strikes where internal bleeding can be caused, where the internal organs can be bruised, like the kidneys, or where blood clots can be made by striking arteries that may end up causing a blockage later on, in some of these cases it is a matter of point striking, for example striking where the liver or kidneys are with certain techniques can cause death
However to train in reliably killing people with martial arts methods requires practice killing people with these methods, while a strong punch to the head or throat is often deadly, it is not always deadly. there are many records of people dying after a single strike to the skull, or the throat, but there are records of people who survived significant trauma to these regions as well
mostly death point/ artery press type striking is a gimmick used by Erle Montaigue and Count Dante to sell information products to people who want to be dangerous. Erle noted that just having the information does not prove effective and that it takes years of work to develop technique and skill capable of being deadly in such a manner, both of these controversial men however emphasized ferocity, and there is little doubt that ferocity alone can be deadly.
Now, in regards to weapons work, there is a lot of deadly material in many martial arts. Michuan sword is full of methods for disabling and killing an opponent with a jian. Spears, swords, clubs, knives etc, lots of deadly material exists in martial arts, though much of it is archaic and goes unused in terms of applications. In the day of the gun spears and swords no longer have the status or roles that they once did, taking life these days requires about as much effort as using a computer mouse, just obtain the right equipment, point it at who you want to die and go "click"
for this reason the whole emphasis upon deadly martial arts as self defense methods has become little more than a marketing gimmick meant to sell the arts, there are however many martial arts groups that do teach lethal techniques but do not "brag" about them the way that is common to some few controversial groups.
for extra points:
John the Monkey mind wrote:Has anyone else experienced having their leg collapse after being gently brushed? My Cheng Man Ching Yang form Taiji teachers demonstrated that on me once. Before saying what he was going to do he said he he was going to try and show me something he was not that good at but his teacher used to demonstrate a lot. He got me to take the stance and just stepped in and brushed my upper leg with his palm and my leg gave out. It was very odd. The guy refuses to say he teaches Taiji Quan but simply Taiji as he says he is not worthy to claim to be able to teach the application, that being said he could demonstrate it, it always seemed to work without any effort on his part.
yeniseri wrote:John the Monkey mind wrote:Has anyone else experienced having their leg collapse after being gently brushed? My Cheng Man Ching Yang form Taiji teachers demonstrated that on me once. Before saying what he was going to do he said he he was going to try and show me something he was not that good at but his teacher used to demonstrate a lot. He got me to take the stance and just stepped in and brushed my upper leg with his palm and my leg gave out. It was very odd. The guy refuses to say he teaches Taiji Quan but simply Taiji as he says he is not worthy to claim to be able to teach the application, that being said he could demonstrate it, it always seemed to work without any effort on his part.
Aikido uses some of these principles and they are sometime taught explicitely, other times it is based on the student's ability to see through the 'masquerade' and at least delay "falling into emptiness'. It is not a martial skill but it can help if one learns more about projection in aikido!
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