is it possible to overtrain qigong?

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is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby mansao » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:19 pm

[WARNING, THREAD STARTED BY NOOBIE :mrgreen: v]

i just started getting into qigong and i have a few dvds from a friend of mine (8 pieces of brocade, qigong massage, understanding qigong, five animal sports qigong, spring forest qigong, The Essential Qigong Training Course, gigong for beginners, wild goose qigong).

I was planning to go through each one of these and possibly add them to my routine. but after a whole bunch of research, i was wondering if it is possible to overtrain and do too much qigong (many different styles at one time) to the point where it can be harmful to your body?

or is it recommended that i should just choose one and stick with it?
i've heard about people going crazy from doing qigong improperly so i want to be sure.
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby yeniseri » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:00 am

It is possible to overtrain but I would look at the curriculum and the time sequence(s) of certain routines. What you mentioned would take at least 10 years to excel.
I realize people train differently so I would immediately train Dayan Qigong (Wild Goose) last.

BASICS
a. Baduanjin
b. Five animals (wuqinxi
c. Various level of standing
and this is Year 1 at its simplified level.

Take a month off before you take up five animals.
In certian levels of yangshengong practice, you aim to internalize a routine by observing its reaction within yourself and see if it is beneficial. Here are some questions:
1. how do I feel before and after practice? compare
2. do I feel relaxed, anxious, etc?
3. Am i thinking clearer?
4. Reactions during and sfter practice! Good, bad, same?

Based on the depth of internalization of practice, you may see 'visions' and life insights would appear in dream states! What is your reaction? How do you respond, etc.
That is why it is better to take tme off between different system to assess yourself and relationship to what you study hence the conservative aspect of taking ones time in this endeavour!
When most people rush into these unique training scenarious, they miss alot and get entangled in energetic abuse to where their consciousness gets messed up and they are non the wiser!
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby sengtsan » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:58 am

Hi Mansao,

Your friend probably doesn't practice the material he shared with you otherwise he would have given you the same wise advice Yeniseri gave you.

moral of the story: the more one shares, the less he practices :lol:
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby joeblast » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:32 am

Of course its possible to overtrain anything - context is what's key here. As long as you're in generally good health you'll probably be hard pressed to overtrain the YMAA things mentioned (it would probably take too much of your time :lol: ) Where I would be a little more careful with overtraining would be the spring forest active exercises and the small universe, the energetics of the exercises are plenty powerful so it is advisable to learn something like embryonic breathing and stillness first, although the other things mentioned will have similar grounding effects, zhan zhuang included (highly recommended as part of this complete breakfast!) Not that one would need to shy away from them (sfq,) but a beginner powering them down for hours a day will probably make you really heady, which is why getting a good experiential feeling of grounding oneself in stillness is important before learning energetic movement practices. You always return to stillness after movement, that is very important.

All of the stuff mentioned is generally compatible (though I'm unfamiliar with 'essentials' or the particular 'qg for beginners') so really it is a matter of figuring out a regimen that works for you. You may like 5 animal better than 8 brocade, for instance, or you may choose to do one one day and another another, the physical things are really a matter of fitting together a good regimen for your body. For instance, my regimen has a lot of spinal work since I have a bad back.
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby mansao » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:43 pm

Thank you all for your replies.

Sounds like I need to stick with one for a while, a long while, before trying to pick up another one, got it. Also, what I meant by overtraining is if it is possible to do too many in one day? or maybe too many times a week?


Hey joeblast, can you clarify or perhaps embellish on what you wrote:

"Not that one would need to shy away from them (sfq,) but a beginner powering them down for hours a day will probably make you really heady, which is why getting a good experiential feeling of grounding oneself in stillness is important before learning energetic movement practices. You always return to stillness after movement, that is very important."


Not quite sure what you mean. I've read about internal martial artists using zhan zhuang, standing practice, as a means of building internal strength. not to sound like a total douche, but what is this stillness you speak of? and why is it very important?
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby joeblast » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:35 pm

If you think of it in terms of all of your mind and bodily processes as signals, some signals beget others. By harnessing the breath and "putting your awareness on the physical mechanisms of the breath" you are taking through-stream-energy and focusing it on a physical process. By harmonizing the breath and focusing the awareness properly, it makes the process create more energy than it consumes. By focusing and harnessing that thought-stream-energy, you are "training a path of least resistance that your core energy overflows into" when the body isnt using it for anything else. By attenuating some signals (e.g. breath) others become more apparent (e.g. heartbeat) and you have thus lowered the "noise floor" of all the body-mind processes. Dr Yang and other have written about the high qi-oxygen utilization of the brain; so the idea is to create a path of least resistance for all of these additionally available energy potentials the body isnt using - and since it is also focused awareness, not just a low consumption state of oblivion, you are directing where some measure of that energy goes - how efficient that process takes place is a function of the level of stillness you are able to obtain. This stillness is spontaneous and effortless, and doing the breath focus is a sure fire way there if you cultivate the technique.

I was reading cleary's golden flower translation and a line read something like, "if you suppose that you lose energy through expenditure, it is only because you gain nothing in stillness."

Dont worry about your overall level of progress, just focus on one or a couple simple things at a time and you make progress faster, the whole get out of your own way thing, you cant think your way there. Learning to redirect your thoughtstreamenergy to a certain extent cures you of things like boredom - how can one be bored when its just a moment? :lol:

ZZ is awesome, I know a few people who have made more solid progress only doing that. But when you add in meditation and attain good stillness, you basically "soak up more" of that which you cultivated earlier. I think I have written about some of the physical particulars in some of these adjacent threads, but if there is anything in particular let me know. :) Dont be afraid to make progress! That's why safeguards like a well established path of least resistance is indispensable, you revert to training when you've had enough.
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby mansao » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:35 am

That is a LOT of detailed information joeblast, thanks for dropping some knowledge. I feel like I just watched a one minute video clip off the discovery channel or something lol.

I am currently doing the 8 pieces of brocade, but I also have Dr. Yang's understanding qigong. I think its like 6 dvds. Do you have any idea whether or not that is a supplement to the qigong sets or is that something too advanced for a noobie? (there's qigong breathing, embryonic breathing, four seasons qigong, small circulation, and martial art qigong breathing)
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby joeblast » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:50 pm

Dont restrain your knowledge - just understand that you can only understand so much from a dvd, soooo much moooore from living the experience yourself. Dr Yang's stuff all flows together. Particular qigongs, external stuff, should fit one's needs. If basic, 8 brocades. If specific, other things may be more appropriate, like the xing shen zhuang I do for me spine. WRT dvds, dont keep going if you need to ponder and really absorb something to understand it more deeply, but if your practice and experience flow speedily with the material, dont hesitate to explore other things and continue building your "matrix of understanding" of this stuff. Watch embryonic breathing three times at least :lol:

The previous post of mine is a core element of mindset of meditation and it can be extended to any of the external forms.
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby mansao » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:37 pm

Thank you again joeblast, you certainly are a great source of information.
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby joeblast » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:30 pm

:)
/\
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby mansao » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:33 pm

XD ^thats awesome



:mrgreen:
/\


Happy Holidays!
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby Dvivid » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:53 am

Its different for everyone.

The more time/effort (kung fu) you put in, the more you will accomplish. With qigong, the more energy you start to develop, the more important it becomes that you learn to "hold the center". That means concentrate single-mindedly in the center of your abdomen, and center of your mind. Keep your emotions neutral. Otherwise, you risk your excess energy controlling you, instead of the other way around.
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Re: is it possible to overtrain qigong?

Postby mansao » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Thank you for the input D.
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