Questions that need asking

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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby Josh Young » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:48 pm

Who brings up the idea of bringing feet together when stepping?
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby wpgtaiji » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:05 pm

pete5770 wrote:
wpgtaiji wrote: Arguably, the majority of taiji today is of the silly Government styles desinged for teaching new people the BASICS, not the art of taiji. Bringing your feet together when stepping is a ridiculous and incorrect assertion to make on someone. Anyone who advocates it is NOT being honest, first, with themselves and second, with their students. God help the entire art...


We're talking about taking a step.
Have you gone off your meds? :wink: :wink:

You brought up the assinine suggestion that people bring their feet together STEPPING forward. It seems this is what the MASSES in taiji do. pete, YOU asked about this silly issue. And it isnt taking a step! It is foundational to how that student will forever look at their art in the future. Look at yourself! You claim 40 years of taiji, yet a simple issue, you cant get your head around to see the insanity in it!

All this said, in bagua walking, YES, we brush the ankles together in the basic (non-fighting) walking. This is to teach the body to move in a very specific and necessary way to do some of the more difficult applications with power later on. Maybe, in their wanting to unify taiji, they some how got this mixed into the stepping. The problem is, doing it in a straight line does NOT bring the same results. Anything is possible.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:11 pm

wpgtaiji wrote:
pete5770 wrote:
wpgtaiji wrote: Arguably, the majority of taiji today is of the silly Government styles desinged for teaching new people the BASICS, not the art of taiji. Bringing your feet together when stepping is a ridiculous and incorrect assertion to make on someone. Anyone who advocates it is NOT being honest, first, with themselves and second, with their students. God help the entire art...


We're talking about taking a step.
Have you gone off your meds? :wink: :wink:

You brought up the assinine suggestion that people bring their feet together STEPPING forward. It seems this is what the MASSES in taiji do. pete, YOU asked about this silly issue. And it isnt taking a step! It is foundational to how that student will forever look at their art in the future. Look at yourself! You claim 40 years of taiji, yet a simple issue, you cant get your head around to see the insanity in it!

All this said, in bagua walking, YES, we brush the ankles together in the basic (non-fighting) walking. This is to teach the body to move in a very specific and necessary way to do some of the more difficult applications with power later on. Maybe, in their wanting to unify taiji, they some how got this mixed into the stepping. The problem is, doing it in a straight line does NOT bring the same results. Anything is possible.


OK, since that's settled let's move on to the next question. Thanks for setting us all straight.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:19 pm

Josh Young wrote:Who brings up the idea of bringing feet together when stepping?


I've heard various instructors say that it's "the way to do it", for lack of a better phrase. I'm simply interested in peoples take on it. Different things are said and done and the topic interests me. You know me, question everything.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:49 am

wpgtaiji wrote:
pete5770 wrote:
wpgtaiji wrote: Arguably, the majority of taiji today is of the silly Government styles desinged for teaching new people the BASICS, not the art of taiji. Bringing your feet together when stepping is a ridiculous and incorrect assertion to make on someone. Anyone who advocates it is NOT being honest, first, with themselves and second, with their students. God help the entire art...


We're talking about taking a step.
Have you gone off your meds? :wink: :wink:


You brought up the assinine suggestion that people bring their feet together STEPPING forward. ..... pete, YOU asked about this silly issue. ... The problem is, doing it in a straight line does NOT bring the same results.


It wasn't a "suggestion" at all. It was a question.
I'm not sure there are any "silly issues" in Tai Chi when it comes to getting your foundation and root stable. After all there's that thing about "God and / or the devil is in the details." I've always found that to be very true.
So tell me, what different "results" do YOU get by going straight ahead as opposed to sweeping back to center and then out again?
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby caesar » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:43 pm

Pete,

can you find a video where people could see exactly what you mean?
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:11 pm

caesar wrote:Pete,

can you find a video where people could see exactly what you mean?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvF6r6D ... dded#t=59s

Brush knee push in particular
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby caesar » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:50 pm

Alright...is this btw the way it's taught in your school?
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:32 pm

caesar wrote:Alright...is this btw the way it's taught in your school?


No. For the last 6 or 8 years I haven't taught or "went to school". So I take it you got what
I was talking about? :?
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby Brian » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:32 pm

pete5770 wrote:
caesar wrote:Pete,

can you find a video where people could see exactly what you mean?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvF6r6D ... dded#t=59s

Brush knee push in particular


The Beijing 24 Form...a form constructed by a committe..so full of bad techniques it should be banned! The stepping to the middle, the raising of the front foot when shifting the weight back, looking back at the hands while performing 'Repulse Monkey/Back stepping monkey', no proper use of the waist/kuas, placing the stepping-back foot toes first instead of sinking the heel, needle at sea bottom only half formed....it looks good...but not correct Taijiquan.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:40 pm

Brian wrote:
pete5770 wrote:
caesar wrote:Pete,

can you find a video where people could see exactly what you mean?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvF6r6D ... dded#t=59s

Brush knee push in particular


The Beijing 24 Form...a form constructed by a committe..so full of bad techniques it should be banned! The stepping to the middle, the raising of the front foot when shifting the weight back, looking back at the hands while performing 'Repulse Monkey/Back stepping monkey', no proper use of the waist/kuas, placing the stepping-back foot toes first instead of sinking the heel, needle at sea bottom only half formed....it looks good...but not correct Taijiquan.


Thanx "Brian" that was the kind of answer I was looking for. Someones well thought out opinion on the subject.
I think you're right about it being "pretty" or looking good, but these days I guess that's what sells it. People want to do it because they tend to liken it to dance and "pretty" counts.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby caesar » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:54 pm

I don't think healthy things should be banned anyway...better that people are doing some kind of movement and caring for themselves.

Perhaps those short forms just shouldn't be called tai chi.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby caesar » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:04 pm

pete5770 wrote:
caesar wrote:Alright...is this btw the way it's taught in your school?


No. For the last 6 or 8 years I haven't taught or "went to school". So I take it you got what
I was talking about? :?



Yeah I get it. :)
But good that you asked the whole matter anyway...is there no school nearby where you live or do you just prefer a tai chi hermit lifestyle? :)
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby wpgtaiji » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm

Brian wrote:The Beijing 24 Form...a form constructed by a committe..so full of bad techniques it should be banned! The stepping to the middle, the raising of the front foot when shifting the weight back, looking back at the hands while performing 'Repulse Monkey/Back stepping monkey', no proper use of the waist/kuas, placing the stepping-back foot toes first instead of sinking the heel, needle at sea bottom only half formed....it looks good...but not correct Taijiquan.

HEY HEY HEY!! Hold on a moment!!

Only ONE can criticize the government forms, and I already did that! :P

LMAO! Oh right.. this is the MOST that most people ever see or know of taiji.. and like you say, it is BS! Good to see we are on the same wavelength..
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:19 pm

caesar wrote:
pete5770 wrote:
caesar wrote:Alright...is this btw the way it's taught in your school?


No. For the last 6 or 8 years I haven't taught or "went to school". So I take it you got what
I was talking about? :?



Yeah I get it. :)
But good that you asked the whole matter anyway...is there no school nearby where you live or do you just prefer a tai chi hermit lifestyle? :)


I guess you could call me a hermit. I've been trying to find an instructor that I think can help me but the one I want to go to is a good hour away. My last instructor moved to the West coast and Gabriel Chin, who held court every Saturday up in Ann Arbor, died a few years back, so, yes, a hermit(of sorts).
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby pete5770 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:37 pm

caesar wrote:I don't think healthy things should be banned anyway...better that people are doing some kind of movement and caring for themselves.

Perhaps those short forms just shouldn't be called tai chi.


Interesting. I recall a conversation I had once with one of my instructors who told me that
there are people who would like to see Chen Style classified as something other than Tai Chi.
Seems they base this on Chen being, in reality, a "hard" style or something along those lines.
I'm in agreement with you about people "....doing some kind of ....". If they think they are doing Tai Chi then what's the problem with that? Eventually anyone who stays with it for any length of time will come across what might be called "real Tai Chi", for lack of better words, and realize that what they were doing is not quite the "real deal".
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby NC Tai Chi » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:21 pm

Hello Pete, first off, before asking us - have you asked your teacher or his top student?

My 'guess ' is that this type of stepping helps create a strong center and deep root.

Personally I practice the 60 movement developed by William CC Chen where we do step forward and not bring our feet/ancles together.

My way is not better, but different. I am sure there are beneifts from both ways. Ask your teacher. It is a good question! I enjoy this forum and Master Yang Jing Ming's teaching. Very insightful. It answers as many questions as it asks. Delelop balance, deep root , and relaxation and ready to spring (fajing) at a moments notice.

Question and ponder so you can find your truth.

Peace!

~Michael
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:48 am

pete5770 wrote:No. For the last 6 or 8 years I haven't taught or "went to school". fer a tai chi hermit lifestyle?

I guess you could call me a hermit. I've been trying to find an instructor that I think can help me but the one I want to go to is a good hour away. My last instructor moved to the West coast and Gabriel Chin, who held court every Saturday up in Ann Arbor, died a few years back, so, yes, a hermit(of sorts).


Pete...have you ever thought of approaching it the 'seminar way'?....find a good teacher within reasonable distance who gives weekend/week seminars, travel, learn, make a 'taiji holiday' of it, then work on what you've learned until the next chance you have of attending another one (most teachers will give a number of seminars during a year). That way, you will, at least stay in contact with a 'mainstream' Taiji process and not be adrift as you are now. Think about it!!
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby Josh Young » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:47 am

Can someone show how this is a flaw? I hear a lot of armchair philosophy about it, but in years of doing taiji and sparring nobody has taken advantage of said flaw, but I have used said flaw against others over and over.

There are good reasons for it, it isn't a mistake or a flaw, it is in all the oldest styles too.

Remember form is superficial. Some so called mistakes are just not understood, like how some forms direct the eyes differently than others.
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Re: Questions that need asking

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:59 am

Josh Young wrote:Can someone show how this is a flaw? I hear a lot of armchair philosophy about it, but in years of doing taiji and sparring nobody has taken advantage of said flaw, but I have used said flaw against others over and over.


I think you have just cotradicted yourself there....asking how it is a flaw...and then saying you have used it (the flaw) 'over and over' against others!!

There are good reasons for it, it isn't a mistake or a flaw, it is in all the oldest styles too.


What are the 'good' reasons for it??

Remember form is superficial.


Nothing in Taiji is 'superficial'....everything has reason and purpose...otherwise, why bother learning it??

Some so called mistakes are just not understood, like how some forms direct the eyes differently than others.


Here again you support the actions of the form...immediatly after calling forms superficial!!
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