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as to the rest, common sense mate. Common sense! Training is to BUILD up the body. If you are continuously injuring the body, are you building it up? The crazy thing with the martial arts is, some answer yes to that question! Think about it! Messed up
mate, when i was 19, and sitting at a table with my seniors after my shodan test, I took in a hard look. Karate beats people up, and we arent talking about an attacker! I decided at that moment that i wouldnt be continuing forever because i didnt want to end up like that.
caesar wrote:Of course! I agree. Although Bujinkan (the art I meant) didn't over emphasize the joint part by kicking high or stuff like that...neither did we train standing in a horse stance...(I was also in Karate, know their ways, don't like...) But for example...in WTBA, how do you train applications...a little pain: good...yes...no...reality?
The push hands methods that he taught also use more pressure than most are used to. Why? The basic idea is that if someone attacked you with little to no pressure (as most Pushes are done in tai chi classes), is that person really attacking you? Do you have to respond? With heavy pressure, you are training the reflexes to react to real threats (not made up ones). Of course, is worked up to in a progressive manner!
But we use applications to develop certain aspects, NOT for fighting. Aspects like coordination, balance, timing.
We also work with what we call the small san sau. Erle LOVED this method which as I understand things, he learned from Chu (Yang sau chung's student).
fazhou wrote:
fazhou wrote:My two cents? It seems that there are two types of pain being discussed. The first is "acclimating" to strikes
fazhou wrote:I think it depends on what you want out of the art. Do you want real world self defense techniques?
fazhou wrote:If so, you should probably get used to being knocked around a bit. If not, then it's not necessary to really know what an uppercut to the jaw will do to your self confidence, attention, pain threshold etc etc.
fazhou wrote:The second type of pain is self inflicted and caused by poor body mechanics, over doing it, or an ill designed art or a combination. This type of pain should not be acceptable at all. Keeping in mind of course that there is a difference between "pain" and "discomfort". "Training is to BUILD up the body". Well said.
part that it could also be learning to adjust for example to a throw, or a lock...if you end being locked, you might have chance still getting away by adjusting, not resisting, flowing to the direction where the lock is been done...to be able to get a little "air" between the locked joint, and then counter attack...but how will you learn this if your instructor doesn't give you a clear feeling of being serious with the lock, forcing you to act and move from pure sense, will, sub conscious action so to say?"acclimating" to strikes
caesar wrote: Like sub_human said in another post: "Query urself.. what form do u use when taking a gallon of milk out of the fridge(?), or when watering a plant.. ?"
wpgtaiji wrote:
wpgtaiji wrote:I realized this morning that i may have not clarified. In training, damage occurs because of the training methods and the intent behind the attacks. While we are not wanting to injure each other, it is the person defending who is responsible for not being injured (as it is in the streets). Pulling punches, like we did in karate is very damaging to one's ability to actually inflict pain when needed (dont ask how i know). But accidents do happen.
But taking a container full of beans or worse, metal balls and dropping your palms onto it for the sake of conditioning is insane! If you doubt that, go find a person who has done heavy physical work their entire lives and ask how their hands feel. Honestly, you wont even have to do that, just look at their hands. Yes, they are massive (in general), but they are usually broken and damaged from the effort.
"Even pro tennis players have their right hand's bone density 200% stronger than the 'free' hand. This comes from subtle and gentle shock to the right hand, from every time the racket hits the ball. Swimmers do not have the same bone density as runners, because they aren't receiving the shock of receiving ground all the time, making them more vulnerable to osteoporosis"
wpgtaiji wrote:sorry, i could see some people responding with "you are contradicting yourself again" with my posts. I wasnt. Just assuming too much.
yeniseri wrote:You actually have to be in the positon to face the fear.
I remember when I first rapelled the side of a building, I was as scared as hell. I observed that the guys who went before me (some scared guys who actually tried to go to the back of the line) they were kept at the side of the building longer while holding the small of their back, with body at 90 degree angle. One guy actually sweated water and peed himself that he was soaking wet when he reached the ground 15 minutes later! I did play it off and the confidence level became much more natural over time.
p.s. I went to the bathroom before I went to the building site
You actually have to be in the positon to face the fear.
I'd like to hear opinions about
how much pain should be felt in training,
caesar wrote:Although, in the same art, a teacher once said (after he did a violent lock very gentle, very soft, without pain)..."when we learn how to do a technique without hurting, we are actually learning to be even more destructive"
caesar wrote:Here's a story...a few years ago, the instructor wanted to demonstrate a technique to our class, and I was his uke: 'I hit, he blocks, my arm swings to the outside, losing my balance, with his blocking hand: he hits me to the ribs while taking a step towards me.' Alright, I was even skinnier than nowadays, but as tall anyway. He punched me really hard and I yelled pretty loud cause it hurt. He says: "it doesn't hurt." Same technique again, even a stronger punch (or so it felt), I moan and he looks me into the eyes and repeats: "It doesn't hurt." This goes on still a couple of times until we started training it with our partners. Good training? Important training? Did my mental endurance increase? Physical endurance? I don't know.
brer_momonga wrote:as far as confronting fear... I practice the drills and try to maintain a sense of enemy. it's improving my fear, but I can't exactly say to what degree... but one thing: I used to startle very easily. I still startle, but not as much.
pete5770 wrote:brer_momonga wrote:as far as confronting fear... I practice the drills and try to maintain a sense of enemy. it's improving my fear, but I can't exactly say to what degree... but one thing: I used to startle very easily. I still startle, but not as much.
You make a good point here. Maybe it's not so much about pain that brings about toughness. It's more about controlling your fear / panic and how you react to whatever the situation is. You could be lying face down in a shallow hole with enemy mortar rounds going off all around you.
Fear / panic inducing??? Sure can be. Startling??? Oh yeah. Pain inducing??? You may be wounded. In all of this the really important thing is to try and think clearly and not give in to fear, panic, or pain because that will generally only make things worse. Keeping yourself under control in crazy situations, maybe that's true toughness.
pete5770 wrote:I think you need to ask yourself what kind of "tough" you want to be. Fighter? War hero? Bar bouncher?
brer_momonga wrote:there is some contact during drills and our instructor will use objects like a wooden sword to help give us a sense of enemy. he's been known to give us a "hard tap" if we're not giving 100% though
brer_momonga wrote:I'm glad you've since found a school that's right for you for the time being.
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