Yang style frame size

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Yang style frame size

Postby fazhou » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:30 pm

Hello all. I have searched around for some answers but didn't find much. Can anyone please explain "frame size" in relation to TJQ? I assume it refers to the size of the postures. Does it have to do with the physical size of the boxer? Or is it more of a technique issue? If that were the case it would seem like a "small" frame would be more efficient. Also, what would Dr. Yang's form on the "Beginners dvd" be considered as far as frame? How about other well known masters? Jesse Tsao, Erle Montaigue, Yang Zhunduo, Yang Jun, Yang Cheng fu, and Yang Luchan and sons (please don't flame me about the inclusion of Tsao and Montaigue, all i'm interested in is the size of frame in order to understand). What about the 24 and 48? Are they based on one frame size more than another? Any two cents will be added to my piggy bank. Thanks!
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby wpgtaiji » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:00 am

The short answer is, most styles are Large frame (from Chenfu down). Erle learned both Chenfu and Shao Hu (his brother)'s arts, so he taught what is called Medium frame. When you look at Erle's most recent clips, it is small frame.

The easiest way to tell is in how far the limbs are moved, at least in Yang style.
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby Josh Young » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:21 pm

This is a complicated topic that can't be adequately explained with a simple post.

In many lines there are different forms and teachings for the frame variations. Different groups literally have different teachings about this and some people use this as a way to tell who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't.

It is taught by many that one must learn and understand the large frame before they understand the small frame. I think this is a wise way to consider them. The best instruction about this is what you are taught by your guide, hands on. It isn't something good to learn without hands on training.
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby pete5770 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:06 am

I would consider the Wu(hao) style to be small framed. It seems very compact and doesn't have much in the way of arm and leg movement, as compared to what is mostly taught today (Yang, Wu, and Chen). This shows up fairly well in Wu(hao) videos. Especially in the older masters.
Note: Wu and Wu(hao) are different styles.
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby yeniseri » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:16 pm

My personal belief is that frame size mirrors build! Alot of people of smaller frame could, significantly, see benefit from Sun Style , or even Wu/Hao (sharing teachers per Sun shi taijiquan) but because of the wider "appeal of ease' and visual style, Easy Yang Style is played up so there are more followers. This is one case where "standardization" may not be such a good thing though threre are no obvious problems with playing the Yang style per Yang Chengfu
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby caesar » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:26 am

Is there a common beliefe that larger frame is easier to adapt?
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby Brian » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:04 pm

Also...how does Frame size relate to the height at which the Form is done??

here is a clip that is labelled 'Banhou Large (Low) Frame...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrIcXONHd2I
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby yeniseri » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:12 pm

Brian wrote:Also...how does Frame size relate to the height at which the Form is done??

here is a clip that is labelled 'Banhou Large (Low) Frame...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrIcXONHd2I


Functionally, that specific style would cause alot of knee problems, low back problems and a terrible choice for 'older' practitioners so a bad choice for most people. Stance is too low for most practitioners and can increase blood pressure for those vulnerable based on family history of such problems.
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby pete5770 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:31 pm

yeniseri wrote:
Brian wrote:Also...how does Frame size relate to the height at which the Form is done??

here is a clip that is labelled 'Banhou Large (Low) Frame...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrIcXONHd2I


Functionally, that specific style would cause alot of knee problems, low back problems and a terrible choice for 'older' practitioners so a bad choice for most people. Stance is too low for most practitioners and can increase blood pressure for those vulnerable based on family history of such problems.


I'm thinking that I would change your "...WOULD cause a lot...." to "...could cause a lot....". There is no real reason to assume that because something is out of the ordinary and difficult looking that it is any more or less injury prone than the next thing. The person in the video looked to be near middle age and seemed very comfortable, relaxed, in no pain, and very adept at what he was doing. To me that says he has practiced this for some time with no real ill effects. Can everyone do this? Of course not. Can someone with the desire to learn this form do it? Sure, IF your body holds out under the training stresses and that's true with ANY physical activity you decide to participate in. I see it as "unusual" and not often seen but it's not impossible for those who may want to try it.
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Re: Yang style frame size

Postby yeniseri » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:07 pm

You are probably right!

When one deals with teaching fitness by whatever name one wants to call it, the safety of the participant is of utmost important. Actually, it is the most important thing hence a fitness assessment to ascertain if the individual can handle the exercise routine, regardless of intensity.
I am sure you knw that when teaching taijiquan, one starts with a 'high stance' and lower the stance over time based on the 'gong' and the health status of the individual. Starting in a lower frame per the link is asking for trouble especially for anyone over 30!
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