Relationships

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Relationships

Postby Monsoon » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:02 pm

Hi all,

This may be a somewhat impolite question but here goes anyway!

What is the relationship between YMAA and the Yang Family group?

I'm not talking about the lineage but how they interact or position themselves relative to each other today.

Monsoon
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Re: Relationships

Postby wpgtaiji » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:54 pm

This sounds like a wonderful topic! What is the reason you are interested in this relationship?
(not being a YMAA member, i cannot speak for them. However, I wonder why, today, when they show NOTHING special, why would anyone be associated with them?)
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Re: Relationships

Postby baihe shifu » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:34 am

Wpgtaiji wrote:

This sounds like a wonderful topic! What is the reason you are interested in this relationship?
(not being a YMAA member, i cannot speak for them. However, I wonder why, today, when they show NOTHING special, why would anyone be associated with them?)


Yes sounds like it could develop in to a great topic and discussion.

However Wpgtaiji why the negativity on what is a board or forum dedicated in the main to the discussion of matters YMAA related??? Isn't that just a little rude or at the very least, negative? Not a way to influence people and win friends.

Why do you hold the view mentioned above and how does it effect you personally or within your own practice? You, like I are aligned to the Erle/Eli Montaigue World Taiji Boxing Association way so how does the YMAA effect you in such a way to write the above?
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Re: Relationships

Postby chh » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:50 am

I don't think anyone's tried to answer the question yet because it's not totally clear. What kind of relative position are you asking about?

Are you asking whether YMAA as an organization ranks itself as more or less good than the Yang Family? I've been training at a YMAA school for about 4 years, and so far I've never known an instructor or Dr. Yang to make such a comparison between YMAA and any other school- definitely nothing that would count as an official position of the school about Yang Family Association. It looks to me like Dr. Yang has stated explicitly that those kinds of comparisons aren't well motivated in his view.

http://ymaa.com/articles/history-of-yan ... -taijiquan (esp. final paragraph)

I'm not sure that there's been any interaction between the schools. Maybe someone who's been to one of the Taste of China events or the tournament in Taipei with YMAA has hung out with them at some point?

Sam Masich might be the strongest common ground- he has trained with both Dr. Yang and Yang Jun. His bio indicates that he has a lot of great things to say about them both.

I hope that answer helps!
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Re: Relationships

Postby wpgtaiji » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:37 pm

baihe shifu wrote:
Wpgtaiji wrote:

This sounds like a wonderful topic! What is the reason you are interested in this relationship?
(not being a YMAA member, i cannot speak for them. However, I wonder why, today, when they show NOTHING special, why would anyone be associated with them?)


Yes sounds like it could develop in to a great topic and discussion.

However Wpgtaiji why the negativity on what is a board or forum dedicated in the main to the discussion of matters YMAA related??? Isn't that just a little rude or at the very least, negative? Not a way to influence people and win friends.

Why do you hold the view mentioned above and how does it effect you personally or within your own practice? You, like I are aligned to the Erle/Eli Montaigue World Taiji Boxing Association way so how does the YMAA effect you in such a way to write the above?


I had to read your post, then mine about 10 times to understand what the heck you were talking about. Mate, the comment wasnt about YMAA! It was about Yang family (the topic of the discussion). From what i have discovered from them, there is nothing special or new that they share, so why would anyone care about this relationship.

And if you are WTBA, then WHY would you ask such a question? From someone not understanding your objective, there are a bunch of reasons you could be asking, and very few are flattering.
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Re: Relationships

Postby baihe shifu » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:33 pm

Okay but your post did mention YMAA and then went on to say "they show nothing special" leading me to believe you were referring to YMAA and not the Yang Family Tai Chi.

Now that that's been clarified I still have to ask what does it matter?

It's what you are doing with your own understanding of the art that matters and not the opinions of everyone else.

Erle's Taiji was not Yang Taiji! It was/is Erle's Taiji ... Simple as that!

Erle and I were friends from the time I knew him until the sad day of his departure from this realm. I remember taking some of my students to meet him at his then home in Leura NSW in September 1998 .. his down to earth attitude greatly impressed my students and this is because Erle was Erle. Nothing more and nothing less. It was Erle that turned me on to Dim-Mak etc.

It was Erle who awarded me my Internal Arts Instructor Accreditation with the World Taiji Boxing Association and life membership into his then Australian Therapeutic Movement Association.

Can I ask if you trained with him, knew him or was your involvement via his other members? Do you know Eli? Are you a member of the WTBA? Just curious.

Regarding the topic, again ..... It's what you are doing with your own understanding of the art that matters and not the opinions of everyone else.
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Re: Relationships

Postby wpgtaiji » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:13 pm

So you are derailing your own thread? That is bizarre mate.

SO you really had no reason for asking the original question?
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Re: Relationships

Postby baihe shifu » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:31 pm

WTF???
With all due respect I don't know what sort of issues are swimming in your head but they are not of my making!

I am attempting in engaging in actual discussion here. It would be nice if you would share your thoughts an opinions instead of attempting to "take down" others who may or may not have a similar or different view to that of your own. Remember, it is a "Discussion Forum!"

Derailing my own thread??? Again WTF?

Lets look at this shall we:

Monsoon » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:02 am

Hi all,

This may be a somewhat impolite question but here goes anyway!

What is the relationship between YMAA and the Yang Family group?

I'm not talking about the lineage but how they interact or position themselves relative to each other today.

Monsoon


Okay. Hmmm it seems that this thread is not mine to "derail" but was actually started by Monsoon as clearly shown above.

It was you who derailed this by stating

What is the reason you are interested in this relationship?
(not being a YMAA member, i cannot speak for them. However, I wonder why, today, when they show NOTHING special, why would anyone be associated with them


I asked why it was you thought the above and why did it matter? (To you, Monsoon or anyone else who cared to share and discuss). This I would have thought was a legitimate enough question?

If you don't want to or can't discuss this then fair enough ... just don't go making statements that your not prepared to discuss?

Best wishes!
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Re: Relationships

Postby wpgtaiji » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:41 pm

mate, discussing off topic stuff in a thread is something i wont do any more, sorry.

You want to know the relationship of YMAA and Yang family. Why? What is the reason for this? What is the MOTIVATION for the discussion?

I also wonder what you mean by "yang family", as there appear to be 3 or so different "families" all claiming the lineage.

Now, you claim i derailed the thread, how? I asked a question, then made a statement that I saw nothing special in any of the family arts that is presented. Derailing? In fact, all on topic. The derailing was talking about a NON-ymaa and non-yang (your words) organization, and me personally. I have been warned about such activities, so I wont play those games any more.

It was sincere. Your anger is interesting. Thank you for your input!

Good luck mate (that means I will not discuss with you any more).
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Re: Relationships

Postby baihe shifu » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:09 pm

Mate, for whatever it may be worth I repeat:

With all due respect I don't know what sort of issues are swimming in your head but they are not of my making!

Anger??? I'm not angry. What makes you think I am angry at you? (or anyone else for that matter). I'm sorry if you believe this but you place far too much importance upon yourself if you think you have somehow made me angry :D

You don't want to discuss any more? Cool. That's fine with me!

You weren't really contributing to the discussion anyway so peace brother :) .... now off you toddle! :wink:
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Re: Relationships

Postby baihe shifu » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:27 am

Monsoon,

Not sure but the following may be of some small interest to you:

http://imos-journal.net/?p=206
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Re: Relationships

Postby Monsoon » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:06 am

Whoops! I go away for a couple of days and come back to this?

The original question was only a request for information. However, the relationship between schools in similar lineages does interest me a little. In this case, is the Yang Family Assoc. considered to be definitive by practitioners of Yang style taiji in general, and if so, does the YFA endorse the YMAA? Does endorsement, in this case or any other, confer legitimacy in the usual meaning of the term?

I was just trying to get a sense of how different groups perceive their positions in the larger landscape of a particular style, if you see what I mean. Part of my request is to find out if these groups continue to inform each other, or if they remain separate, aloof and inviolate (which I guess would be a bit of a shame). One thing that I am not trying to do is gauge which group is the 'best' - whatever that may mean!

@wpgtaiji, your questions of 'why' and 'what's the motivation' have no relevance to me, with all due respect. There is no reason to be suspicious. Quote: "From what i have discovered from them, there is nothing special or new that they share, so why would anyone care about this relationship." It is possible to ask such questions regarding relationships without descending into a comparison-fest.

That help any?
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Re: Relationships

Postby Dvivid » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:50 pm

Hello,

There is no connection between the historical Yang family that holds the lineages of Yang Taijiquan, and Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. Yang is a popular last name.

However, 98% of the Yang family Taijiquan theory was recorded by Yang, Ban-Hou (楊班侯), who lived 1837-1890. This is the essence of the art. Dr. Yang has traced the form he learned as a teenager back to this form, having translated the original theory of Yang, Ban-Hou. Dr. yang's Taijiquan is considered unususal, or sometimes it is called 'old-style Yang', which is known mainly in Taiwan. it is likely that Dr. Yang's taijiquan is very close to the original intention of the art based on his deep research on the underlying theory, cross-referenced with understanding of internal principles and body structure from his study and practice of other styles, such as white crane and Chen Taijiquan.

So, it WOULD be interesting to see dialogue between the two.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Relationships

Postby Monsoon » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:20 pm

Thank you Dvivid,

Although I was aware there was no 'family' connection (just coincidental family names), it does no harm to point it out.

And you have touched upon the reason the original question interested me. In my opinion it does IMA no good whatsoever to keep schools and styles separated, especially if such separation is based on misplaced loyalty, pride or simply misunderstanding. Surely there is much to be gained from open dialogue between practioners of various styles, at the organisational level. Not to regulate stuff but to expand and explore what is known or theorised about.

So, the question remains: Does this happen?

Monsoon
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Re: Relationships

Postby chh » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:39 am

"Surely there is much to be gained from open dialogue between practioners of various styles, at the organisational level."

That's a great point.

Schools and styles definitely aren't separated, though- you can look online to find examples of Dr. Yang giving seminars at non YMAA schools, and non YMAA instructors giving seminars at YMAA, and other unrelated tai chi schools meeting up or exchanging seminars with each other. Nothing has come up about YMAA and Yang family having met yet and it's looking like the answer is 'no', but I guess I don't see a reason to be especially vigilant about those two in particular. Also, they seem to share some students, which counts against their total separation.

There definitely *are* positive consequences of having schools and styles separated- they diverge over time in ways that are interesting and sometimes productive. But I guess the benefit from that type of diversity is probably most accessible when schools sometimes interact and exchange ideas like you're talking about, which I think they do.
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